Bullet Spin and no movement

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Apr 17, 2019
331
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Something that's nagged at me; in the much vaunted I/R vids, this:

Java's clearly demonstrating bullet spin. I have a few pitchers (younger, 8-10u) that have this bullet spin. It's my fault, I'm sure, but I'm not sure what the next step is to progress. Is it just that the turn-over follow-through is lacking? The pitchers that I have that aren't doing bullet spin seem to be pushing down the back side still. Just looking for thoughts.
 
Jul 22, 2015
851
93
For many pitchers (maybe most?) bullet spin will result in their fastest pitch. Notice I said FASTEST, not BEST. That certainly could have a time and place if you use it correctly and spot it well but it sounds like she's unintentionally getting bullet spin, which is a problem. From the what you said about her drop curve it sounds like she is getting bullet spin or something similar on all of her pitches. It really sounds like she lacks a fundamental understanding of how to achieve the desired spins or can't connect the proper spin to the wrist/finger action it takes to get that spin. It may take a bunch of fairly tedious spin work from half distance or less until she can get the spin she wants 90% of the time. Sometimes it helps to give the proper feel for drop spin (or drop curve) to go pretty much full speed but throw the ball into the ground just a few feet in front of her landing foot. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of work on spins until you can do it full speed and full distance.
 
Nov 8, 2018
774
63
At the end of the day fast ball pitches arnt the bulk of a high end pitch selection in any game. Rise, drop, change etc should dominate. Keeping batters off balance is the key. If you are throwing fastballs you are probably getting hit. Especially a bullet spin fastball. Work the spins. Make it move. Change speeds and keep the batter thinking.


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Mar 20, 2015
174
28
More bend in the elbow combined with a slightly earlier and more aggressive internal rotation of the upper arm.
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,752
113
Pac NW
Bullet spin is great when first learn whip. It's almost always a natural byproduct/indicator of natural whip. Once they can nail spots with a fastball (assuming a decent drive, good posture, etc...,) then teach a change and drop.

Like ArmWhip advised, teach the girl to recognize spin, then learn to steer that spin. Without spin awareness--nothing else matters. For a drop: it must be 12/6--no exceptions. For a rise, it MUST have backspin. That means dot on the left (RHP) or no dot at all (6/12.)
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
Bullet spin isn't the problem...I can post 50 videos of high level pitchers throwing bullet spin pitches. The problem is that your DD was never taught how to throw a breaking pitch.

You see, most kid don't really "have" a breaking pitch. Having a breaking pitch means that she can get the ball to move 95% of the time and can control the location of the breaking pitch about 95% of the time.

Most kids can only get the ball to break about 50% of the time, and then they don't have any control over the location of the pitch. Against advanced batters, you have to be much, much better.

As your DD's age, the only kids still playing ball are serious, and they have played enough not to be easily fooled.

This isn't some great secret. Your PC should have known this. Your DD probably hasn't needed to work on her IR pitching motion for 2 or 3 years.

You will need to find a PC to teach her a breaking pitch. And, then your DD will have to work her rear off to perfect it over the next few months.

I'm not sure where you are, but, if I were you, I would contact Bill Hillhouse and set up some lessons. Bill really knows how to teach breaking pitches.
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
That was a nice compliment Ray, thank you. I would caution the OP though, sometimes you have to go backwards before you go forward! I get people all the time who come to me saying "we're here to learn a riseball" and then watching her pitch, I will just have to be honest and say I'm sorry, I can't help if that's what you're here for. Choose any cliche you want here: You can't put a good edge on bad steel, you can't polish a terd, etc. Nobody can have true breaking pitches (ESPECIALLY a riseball) if you're mechanics are messed up. Some can cheat and still make a ball drop, you can make it go slow for a change up, but your margin for error is ZERO when you want a rise, you can't have mistakes or flaws or you will not achieve back spin. It's not my rule, it's how our bodies are designed.

IMO, bullet spin equals lazy. Of the 50 pitchers Sluggers mentioned who are "high level", I will maintain they could be even better without that spin. Or the poster who said bullet spin is sometimes someone's fastest pitch... I would love to see what their mechanics look like if that's the case because that should NOT be true. This is likely someone who has 4 different mechanics for 4 different pitches (leaning back on a rise, falling forward on a drop, stepping way over their line and pulling across on a curve, etc.) . How does this make sense to people??????? I just don't get it. If I was a baseball coach and told your son we throw our fastball like this... throwing normally.... then on our curve we're going to step way over to first-base side and angle the ball sideways, nobody would come to a second lesson! Yet in softball, there's coaches making a lot of money doing this!!! I just don't understand.

I will never stop saying that people confuse GOOD pitching with BAD hitting all the time. Bullet spin can usually only take a pitcher "so far", after that there had better be something else in her arsenal. Because really good hitters recognize spin out of the hand, that doesn't mean they hit every pitch but if you can recognize the spin you're not going to be fooled by the pitch. Bullet spin not only means the ball won't break but it gives the hitter an easier target to hit. In a perfect world, a rise spins backward, drop spins forward, and the hitter can't tell the difference immediately. Bullet spin refutes that.

Bill
 
May 15, 2008
1,913
113
Cape Cod Mass.
Watching college games on TV with the kind of high def resolution that is common today I see a lot of D1 pitchers throwing bullet spin riseballs. For many that is the best that they can do. I have also seen pitchers with a little backspin on their riseballs but with a noticeable drop in velocity. For many it is a choice between a slower riseball or a faster bullet spin pitch. I'm pretty sure that Monica Abbot throws bullet spin and it looked like Rachel Garcia did also. Obviously high velocity with backspin is the best.
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
If the mechanics and whip are the same, there should be no significant difference between riseball and dropball velocity. Yes, I too have seen some on TV having success with bulletspin "riseballs". And as I stated above, "unless you have something else in your arsenal bullet spin isn't going to cut it". The pitchers you mentioned ArmWhip have 70+ mph, which qualifies in the women's game as "more in the arsenal". I still think these pitchers are having their success because of the velocity rather than anything else. Give a pitcher at 60mph the same bullet spin and watch her neck get whiplash.

Bill
 

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