Blowing on the ball to make it go foul

[Comp]

Im just not willing to delve into rule 10 to make up a ruling. I see guys try to use rule 10 all the time to justify making some off the wall ruling that is perfectly well covered in the rules. As I stated, until someone with a higher pay grade than me chooses to address it, the rule says touches the ball on or over fair territory.

 

[marriard]

There's a legal case to support this. Guy was arrested for assault for farting on a cop.
Wish i was joking, but I'm not. And if a breath is a touch, you could breath on the base for a force out.
Don't take rules where they aren't supposed to go.

I didn't say touch. I said "an outside force having an effect on where the ball ends up and a fielder shouldn't be allowed to change where an untouched ball should end up. "

And when these things happen (not this scenario, but there is always something that comes up every season or so) it is in the umpires job to have to take the rules to places they aren't supposed to go because you have to rule something (and not ruling is still a decision).

As @The Man In Blue quoted - they specifically include rules to allow the umpire to make a final decision not covered by the rules and often because you have to rule on some weird, unlikely event where the rules are on a grey area. You try not to go there as much as possible by application of rules or case examples etc, but things happen.

I know what @Comp is saying and I don't disagree. I want to be able to rule from case studies and rules - and there are umpires who use Rule 10 to make up for their lack of rule knowledge... however let's take this scenario to an extreme. Let's say the fielders manage to blow a bunted ball that is easily and obviously going to stay fair by blowing it a full 2' so it crosses the foul line. Do we say it is a foul and that is OK?

I couldn't.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Im just not willing to delve into rule 10 to make up a ruling. I see guys try to use rule 10 all the time to justify making some off the wall ruling that is perfectly well covered in the rules. As I stated, until someone with a higher pay grade than me chooses to address it, the rule says touches the ball on or over fair territory.

... And Rule 10 gives you the authority to not use Rule 10.

I understand your view, but there is a big difference in what you cited for your reason and what happened in this play. I am 110% with you on blues abusing the rule to cover their own ignorance or bias.

In this play though, I would have to fall back on the “spirit of the rules” for guidance in invoking Rule 10. A team actively influencing the ball, looking for a loophole absent a written rule, to me is reason to invoke Rule 10. It violates the spirit of the rules.

So, just for fun:

1.) what if the third baseman ran over to the dugout, pulled out a heavy duty fancy hair dryer plugged into an extension cord and ran it over to the baseline and used it to blow the ball foul?

2.) how long do you allow the defense to blow on the ball? Do you allow more than one player to join in? Can they bring the whole defense if needed? Is it still foul if the batter-runner has rounded the bases, scored, and is sitting in the dugout before they get it to go foul?

3.) could the defense refuse to pick the ball up, citing that an eventual wind or earthquake will move the ball foul? How long do you wait?

 

[radness]

So natures wind can blow the ball.
Human wind cant.
And umpires blow wind figuring it out.

 

[grmerrill]

... And Rule 10 gives you the authority to not use Rule 10.

I understand your view, but there is a big difference in what you cited for your reason and what happened in this play. I am 110% with you on blues abusing the rule to cover their own ignorance or bias.

In this play though, I would have to fall back on the “spirit of the rules” for guidance in invoking Rule 10. A team actively influencing the ball, looking for a loophole absent a written rule, to me is reason to invoke Rule 10. It violates the spirit of the rules.

So, just for fun:

1.) what if the third baseman ran over to the dugout, pulled out a heavy duty fancy hair dryer plugged into an extension cord and ran it over to the baseline and used it to blow the ball foul?

2.) how long do you allow the defense to blow on the ball? Do you allow more than one player to join in? Can they bring the whole defense if needed? Is it still foul if the batter-runner has rounded the bases, scored, and is sitting in the dugout before they get it to go foul?

3.) could the defense refuse to pick the ball up, citing that an eventual wind or earthquake will move the ball foul? How long do you wait?

I agree, a rule is as stated, until there is deemed to be a problem and then fixes are made.......... like the pitchers toe flap. If rules are freely interpretated by the individual how frustrating will that be. Imagine if everything was as fluid as the strike zone, it would be anarchy.

 

[marriard]

I agree, a rule is as stated, until there is deemed to be a problem and then fixes are made.......... like the pitchers toe flap. If rules are freely interpretated by the individual how frustrating will that be. Imagine if everything was as fluid as the strike zone, it would be anarchy.

The rules are not freely interpreted. For most situations - certainly for all commonly encountered scenarios - the rules and case interpretations are specifically defined and are often added to and refined.

That accounts for probably over 99.95% of anything that happens on the field. There is a clear allowance - by rule - in the rule book for the umpire to be the sole arbiter and judge of that 0.05% that is not covered because in those cases someone has to make a decision on what happened at that moment. It is not like you can wait for a new rule to be written or a new interpretation during a game - you have to decide then and there.

 

[The Man In Blue]

So natures wind can blow the ball.
Human wind cant.
And umpires blow wind figuring it out.

I’ve tried to kick Mother Nature out before and I will do it again!

Oh, and ...

 

[MTR]

Im just not willing to delve into rule 10 to make up a ruling. I see guys try to use rule 10 all the time to justify making some off the wall ruling that is perfectly well covered in the rules. As I stated, until someone with a higher pay grade than me chooses to address it, the rule says touches the ball on or over fair territory.

I would love to see a video of one of these folks down on all four keeping pace with a moving ball while creating enough of a wind to change it's direction

 

[The Man In Blue]

Ask and ye shall receive ...






It was tried again (unsuccessfully) in a 2012 spring training game, but I cannot find video of it.

It was done successfully in 1940 though!

The Stories Behind 12 Seemingly Obvious Baseball Rules

Sure, these rules seem obvious—but in days past, they were challenged enough that officials added them to the rulebooks anyway.

www.mentalfloss.com

MLB has ruled it illegal under 9.01(c), the OBR equivalent of “Rule 10”. So not only would you be OK @Comp , but there is umpiring precedent. Granted, it is baseball so nothing (that I know of) says you have to make that ruling.

 

[texasheat]

Of course if this actually happened it will either be 1) funny or 2) ejections. Umpires HATE people who put us in these sorts of BS positions of having to make a call so I am NOT going to be happy with the fielder so it better be funny or they are not going to happy.

Eject someone for that? Seriously? That's way overboard.