Batters Box

[Bobby Shirer]

I'm done, you obviously have no intention of learning the correct application of the rule.

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You're done because you obviously can't quote the rule that defines how the batter becomes a batter runner on a foul ball.

 

[Comp]

Yes the ball is in fair territory but it becomes foul if it touches the batter while they are in the batters box. They don't become a batter runner on a foul ball. The ball isn't fair just because it is in fair territory

Seriously, one last time. If the ball makes contact with the batter it is foul. If the batter runner makes contact with a fair batted ball they are out regardless of the balls location. The status of the ball, fair or foul is determined at the time of the infraction, so no, it is not just a foul ball when it is the batter runner that initiates the contact with the ball. 2 completely different rules.

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[Comp]

You're done because you obviously can't quote the rule that defines how the batter becomes a batter runner on a foul ball.

Because it's not foul.

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[Bobby Shirer]

Actually, USA 1.FAIR BALL.C defines this as a fair ball. 8.1.A defines this as the batter becoming a batter-runner. 1.FOUL BALL.F addresses a "batter", not a batter-runner. Somewhat of a conundrum, don't you think?
f

See USA 2017 section 29-d and then 37-e.
Fair/ foul. Wth?

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Seriously, one last time. If the ball makes contact with the batter it is foul. If the batter runner makes contact with a fair batted ball they are out regardless of the balls location. The status of the ball, fair or foul is determined at the time of the infraction, so no, it is not just a foul ball when it is the batter runner that initiates the contact with the ball. 2 completely different rules.

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I agree, if the ball touches a batter runner in fair territory they are out. And the rules state that if the batter touches the ball while they are in the batters box, the ball is foul. And the rules dont make a differentiation between a ball touching the batter in the batters box while in fair or foul territory. And the rules also say that the batter becomes a batter runner when they hit a fair ball. But the rules don't say anything about a batter runner touching the ball in the batters box. Nor do the rules say anything about a ball in fair territory in the batters box touching a batter or batter runner and becoming a fair ball.
So, where does it say anything about the ball in the fair territory area of the batters box touching the batter runner who is also in the batters box resulting in the batter runner being out? Where? Please cite the rule.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Bobby Shirer has invented Schrodinger’s Ball. It is neither foul nor fair but is both simultaneously. That is, until the umpire calls it, at which point realities collapse and the ball must be either fair or foul. More on that in a moment ...

NFHS citations were posted back in post #8 on the first page.

... Back to our Schrodinger’s Ball. A batted ball exists as a fair ball until it becomes a foul ball, whether it exists in fair territory or foul territory. Ergo, all balls start as a fair ball.

Three things can happen to that fair ball. It may:
1) remain a fair ball
2) become a foul ball (by hitting the batter in the box, stopping in foul territory, contacting a defensive player over foul territory, etc.)
3) become a dead ball by being touched inappropriately by the offense ... NOT like that ya’ perv!

At the point that an umpire makes a call, our Schrodinger’s Ball becomes one of those three things. Until then, our mysterious “third state on non-being” actually is a fair ball.

(A mixed attempt at humor and education. This post was brought to you by the letter K.)

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Bobby Shirer has invented Schrodinger’s Ball. It is neither foul nor fair but is both simultaneously. That is, until the umpire calls it, at which point realities collapse and the ball must be either fair or foul. More on that in a moment ...

NFHS citations were posted back in post #8 on the first page.

... Back to our Schrodinger’s Ball. A batted ball exists as a fair ball until it becomes a foul ball, whether it exists in fair territory or foul territory. Ergo, all balls start as a fair ball.

Three things can happen to that fair ball. It may:
1) remain a fair ball
2) become a foul ball (by hitting the batter in the box, stopping in foul territory, contacting a defensive player over foul territory, etc.)
3) become a dead ball by being touched inappropriately by the offense ... NOT like that ya’ perv!

At the point that an umpire makes a call, our Schrodinger’s Ball becomes one of those three things. Until then, our mysterious “third state on non-being” actually is a fair ball.

(A mixed attempt at humor and education. This post was brought to you by the letter K.)

Schrodinger aside, agreed that the ball is fair until it becomes foul when it hits the batter in the batters box. Please cite the rule that specifically says what happens when the batter runner is in the batters box and touches the ball.
And maybe Schrodinger does apply because the status of a ball is determined at the time it is observed or touched or comes to rest, thus a fair ball over foul territory that is touched becomes a foul ball but may continue to be a fair ball unless it is touched and may remain fair if not touched and lands in foul territory but bounds into fair territory, then rolls back into foul territory, over and over again, without passing first or third base... the status of which might be determined when it hits the batter who is still in the batters box, thus preventing them from becoming a batter runner because the ball is foul and the batter cant be a batter runner if she hasnt hit a fair ball.....per the rule.
So there may be a third state because there are fair balls, foul balls, and trans balls....fair balls that become foul balls via reality collapsing umpires.
Is there a case where the batter is hit by the ball while in the batters box and in fair territory and the ball is called foul?
Why yes, and here's the rule:
NFHS states a ball is foul when it
f. touches the batter or the bat in the batter's hand( s) a second time while the batter is within the batter's box;

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Bobby Shirer has invented Schrodinger’s Ball. It is neither foul nor fair but is both simultaneously. That is, until the umpire calls it, at which point realities collapse and the ball must be either fair or foul. More on that in a moment ...

NFHS citations were posted back in post #8 on the first page.

... Back to our Schrodinger’s Ball. A batted ball exists as a fair ball until it becomes a foul ball, whether it exists in fair territory or foul territory. Ergo, all balls start as a fair ball.

Three things can happen to that fair ball. It may:
1) remain a fair ball
2) become a foul ball (by hitting the batter in the box, stopping in foul territory, contacting a defensive player over foul territory, etc.)
3) become a dead ball by being touched inappropriately by the offense ... NOT like that ya’ perv!

At the point that an umpire makes a call, our Schrodinger’s Ball becomes one of those three things. Until then, our mysterious “third state on non-being” actually is a fair ball.

(A mixed attempt at humor and education. This post was brought to you by the letter K.)


When does the umpire make the hand signal indicating the ball is fair? Not immediately when the ball is batted. Certainly not until the ball passes 1st or 3rd, and not until it is touched or comes to rest, so there exists an indetermined state after all!
Why don't the rules make any differentiation between fair and foul territories within the batters box, only referring to it in its entirety, if there are areas within where the batter or batter runner could be in peril?

 

[WVSteven]

NFHS: Rule 8-2 Batter-Runner is out when Article 7
[...] Makes contact with a FAIR BATTED BALL before reaching first base [...]

Bobby, if the ball is fair but in the batter's box and the batter-runner reaches first base safely, do you call her back and rule a foul ball? (If not why not?)
At what point does the batter become the batter-runner?

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Bobby Shirer has invented Schrodinger’s Ball. It is neither foul nor fair but is both simultaneously. That is, until the umpire calls it, at which point realities collapse and the ball must be either fair or foul. More on that in a moment ...

NFHS citations were posted back in post #8 on the first page.

... Back to our Schrodinger’s Ball. A batted ball exists as a fair ball until it becomes a foul ball, whether it exists in fair territory or foul territory. Ergo, all balls start as a fair ball.

Three things can happen to that fair ball. It may:
1) remain a fair ball
2) become a foul ball (by hitting the batter in the box, stopping in foul territory, contacting a defensive player over foul territory, etc.)
3) become a dead ball by being touched inappropriately by the offense ... NOT like that ya’ perv!

At the point that an umpire makes a call, our Schrodinger’s Ball becomes one of those three things. Until then, our mysterious “third state on non-being” actually is a fair ball.

(A mixed attempt at humor and education. This post was brought to you by the letter K.)

Schrodinger asided, agreed that the ball is fair until it becomes foul when it hits the batter in the batters box. Please cite the rule that specifically says what happens when the batter runner is in the batters box and touches the ball.
And maybe Schrodinger does apply because the status of a ball is determined at the time it is observed or touched or comes to rest, thus a fair ball over foul territory that is touched becomes a foul ball but may continue to be a fair ball unless it is touched and may remain fair if not touched and lands in foul territory but bounds into fair territory, then rolls back into foul territory, over and over again, without passing first or third base... the status of which might be determined when it hits the batter who is still in the batters box, thus preventing them from becoming a batter runner because the ball is foul and the batter cant be a batter runner if she hasnt hit a fair ball.....per the rule.
So there may be a third state because there are fair balls, foul balls, and trans balls....fair balls that become foul balls via reality collapsing umpires.
Notice also that the umpire won't call a ball fair no matter what, but calls it foul immediately upon it becoming foul...like when it hits the batter in the batters box.
Finally, let's do this, is there a case where the batter is hit by the ball while in the batters box and in fair territory and the ball is called foul?

NFHS: Rule 8-2 Batter-Runner is out when Article 7
[...] Makes contact with a FAIR BATTED BALL before reaching first base [...]

Bobby, if the ball is fair but in the batter's box and the batter-runner reaches first base safely, do you call her back and rule a foul ball? (If not why not?)
At what point does the batter become the batter-runner?

First, there needs to be a reason for the ball becoming foul such as
the batter touching it while she was still in the batter box. The understanding lies when answering the question, "why mention the batters box at all when referring to a batter or batter runner if the sole determination of whether touching the ball results in an out or foul ball is dependent on whether they are in foul or fair territory? " If the location of the batter in relation to the foul line is the determining factor, then the batters box is irrelevant. ....and the ball is immediately fair upon being struck by the bat and the only sanctuary for the batter runner is foul territory? Especially if the ball being immediately fair upon being struck results in the batter becoming a batter runner and that fact denying any sanctuary of the batters box because she is no longer a batter.
The batter becomes a batter runner after she hits a fair ball and that allows her to run the bases. If she hits a ball and it is in fair territory, she isn't a batter runner until the ball is fair which is determined after other requirements are met.... not getting hit by the ball while in the batters box, the ball remaining in fair territory upon coming to rest, the ball being touched by a player in fair territory, the ball being in fair territory when reaching first or third base..... if these requirements aren't met, the batter doesn't become a batter runner and isn't allowed to run the bases.