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May 12, 2016
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I used to think that about the back leg too. Then I looked at it a different way.
Since the spine is tilted rearward, what would hip extension and rearward ground force look like?
.....Different than what normal propulsion via hip and knee extension is in a forward movement like sprinting or jumping. Correct?
Hip extension would work, but knee extension wouldn't allow rearward tilt. The movement might look like a hip bridge exercise......?
The force is to create forward rotation of the pelvis while maintaining a rearward tilt of the spine.... from a split stance.
How would you do it?
What if you could push the other end of the pelvis rearward against the opposite leg? Rotation from both legs applying forces acting in opposite directions on the ends of the pelvis, using large muscles? Oh my!

Can you post a gif of the hockey crossover? I'd like to see that!
I'm from the Souwwwwth and we don't know what hockey is. :cool:
A lot of you from the south don't know what baseball is.. :), JK

8:40 of this video..



The reason why I chose a figure skater is because they truly understand edges.. alot of hockey players simply lift one leg over another without utilizing both edges. I actually joined figure skating when I was 4, of course by that point I was already skating for two years. But figure skating helped me with my edges and gave me an advantage over a lot of other hockey players.

Glutes and muscles that power the hips are so so important in skating(hockey players and figure skaters have a big rear and upper thighs.

1590870778311.png 1590870803886.png

Obviously Crosby has never skipped a leg day..LOL.

Anyway this is not going to make a lot of sense unless you've felt it before. Just after launch I can feel the stretch and feel like my glutes and muscles around my hips, an extreme force like it's trying to force my upper legs closed.. feel the same thing when doing a cross over except it's the total opposite, force that is trying to force my upper legs open
 
Feb 25, 2020
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Thought I did here...... and here.....

Also, check out the pic you posted I was responding to...and at how the hitters "RHE" side has no crease in his pants along the inguinal line due to that one leg is extending that hip...and then how there's a crease along the inguinal line on the opposite side of his pants, due to the slight flexion that's happening in that hip at that moment in time in question.

That help?

Sorry I went to bed right as you were jumping in.

Are you saying the front hip is not working toward extension (extending). Or front hip has a little flexion left after extending. You said "flexion happening". In regards to this pic.

Screenshot_20200527-122202.png

Here's the whole swing. Since you don't like stills.

 
Apr 11, 2015
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Yes, "technically" speaking, and as the body parts are moving in multiple directions...Freddie, with his rear leg (femoral head) having thrust the left side PG (acetabulum) forward into extension while that leg itself goes into "flexion"....and then with his opposite leg "extending", pushing that leg (femoral head) rearward into the PG (acetabulum) would put that joint into a position of slight "flexion"...and why one inguinal pant line has no crease from the extension taking place there, and the other has a slight crease from the slight flexion taking place along that inguinal line.

The only way Freddie could have had both hips extending forward, was if he had both of his legs underneath him, and then having both push both femoral heads forward into their respective acetabulum(s) simultaneously, such as you showed your weightlifter example doing....
ilin-200kg-pc-gif.18036

....which is plain to see that he never did in that above clip (or at least it should be plain to see I hope). And no, your weightlifter didn't have any hip extension when he did his split jerk either, even though one might say his legs split or separated similar to Freeman's at some point in time.

The difference is because both started from completely different anatomical starting positions, and one was attempting to project/thrust part of his PG (one hip) forward, while the other was simply trying to use his PG (both hips) to maintain his stabilization under the excessive weight going overhead at that time.

EDIT: Maybe a little easier example? If Freddie's hips were both extending, they'd have looked like this....
623b86d408f6b205222d4dc522618928.gif

...which would also have prevented him from actually turning or "opening" them towards the pitcher, unless he was already turned facing him with his feet parallel to the front line of the batter's box, and we know that's not happening. Better, or did that just confuse things more?
 
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Feb 25, 2020
953
93
Yes, "technically" speaking, and as the body parts are moving in multiple directions...Freddie, with his rear leg (femoral head) having thrust the left side PG (acetabulum) forward into extension while that leg itself goes into "flexion"....and then with his opposite leg "extending", pushing that leg (femoral head) rearward into the PG (acetabulum) would put that joint into a position of slight "flexion"...and why one inguinal pant line has no crease from the extension taking place there, and the other has a slight crease from the slight flexion taking place along that inguinal line.

The only way Freddie could have had both hips extending forward, was if he had both of his legs underneath him, and then having both push both femoral heads forward into their respective acetabulum(s) simultaneously, such as you showed your weightlifter example doing....
ilin-200kg-pc-gif.18036

....which is plain to see that he never did in that above clip (or at least it should be plain to see I hope). And no, your weightlifter didn't have any hip extension when he did his split jerk either, even though one might say his legs split or separated similar to Freeman's at some point in time.

The difference is because both started from completely different anatomical starting positions, and one was attempting to project/thrust part of his PG (one hip) forward, while the other was simply trying to use his PG (both hips) to maintain his stabilization under the excessive weight going overhead at that time.

EDIT: Maybe a little easier example? If Freddie's hips were both extending, they'd have looked like this....
623b86d408f6b205222d4dc522618928.gif

...which would also have prevented him from actually turning or "opening" them towards the pitcher, unless he was already turned facing him with his feet parallel to the front line of the batter's box, and we know that's not happening. Better, or did that just confuse things more?

What's your definition of extension?

Mine is increasing the angle between two bones in a joint. Found it in an AnP textbook(nothin but stills in there!)

So hip extension is increasing the angle between pelvis and femur.

Flexion is decreasing the angle between two bones in a joint.

So hip flexion is decreasing the angle between femur and pelvis.

Freddie looks like he gets pretty close to 180 degrees pelvis and femur angle on both sides.

 
Apr 11, 2015
877
63
What's your definition of extension?

Mine is increasing the angle between two bones in a joint. Found it in an AnP textbook(nothin but stills in there!)

So hip extension is increasing the angle between pelvis and femur.

Flexion is decreasing the angle between two bones in a joint.

So hip flexion is decreasing the angle between femur and pelvis.

Freddie looks like he gets pretty close to 180 degrees pelvis and femur angle on both sides.


Yes, extension increasing the angle, flexion decreasing the angle.

If I can request, don't "look" at Freddie or anyone else doing it (especially a static still, when both extension and flexion describe dynamic movements)...stand up and put your flat hand on your rear leg/hip (along the inguinal line), and move your legs/hips in simulating what you'd do with them in a swing a couple times, and then put your hand on your lead leg/hip (along the inguinal line), and do the same thing.

When I do it, I do feel the rear joint angle increase (extension)...and when my hand is on my lead leg/hip line, I can feel my symphysis pubis bone move closer to my lead leg/hip, decreasing the angle of that lead joint (flexion).

Those two things can also be felt or described as "external rotation" of the rear leg, and "internal rotation" of the lead leg if their respective feet were off the ground..."open chained", instead of "closed chain" as they are now. Is that of any help, or confuse things more?
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,199
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as always Bobby incomplete. And nothing really to do with TTB Vs down to. Once again you have proven that you think up inefficient ways to swing a bat. Sorry.
Yeah, using large muscles and torque to create rotation is really inefficient.
Only thing proven here is that I was right.....
arguing with you is a waste of time. You're already too smart.
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,199
63
Yes, extension increasing the angle, flexion decreasing the angle.

If I can request, don't "look" at Freddie or anyone else doing it (especially a static still, when both extension and flexion describe dynamic movements)...stand up and put your flat hand on your rear leg/hip (along the inguinal line), and move your legs/hips in simulating what you'd do with them in a swing a couple times, and then put your hand on your lead leg/hip (along the inguinal line), and do the same thing.

When I do it, I do feel the rear joint angle increase (extension)...and when my hand is on my lead leg/hip line, I can feel my symphysis pubis bone move closer to my lead leg/hip, decreasing the angle of that lead joint (flexion).

Those two things can also be felt or described as "external rotation" of the rear leg, and "internal rotation" of the lead leg if their respective feet were off the ground..."open chained", instead of "closed chain" as they are now. Is that of any help, or confuse things more?
More cross pollination. .....
Whaaaat? Extension and flexion can't be shown in a still because they're dynamic movements?
They describe movement and anatomical positions.
Cannot a hip be extended and the femur be internally rotated?
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
What's your definition of extension?

Mine is increasing the angle between two bones in a joint. Found it in an AnP textbook(nothin but stills in there!)

So hip extension is increasing the angle between pelvis and femur.

Flexion is decreasing the angle between two bones in a joint.

So hip flexion is decreasing the angle between femur and pelvis.

Freddie looks like he gets pretty close to 180 degrees pelvis and femur angle on both sides.


I agree hip extension is occurring on both sides
 
Apr 11, 2015
877
63
More cross pollination. .....
Whaaaat? Extension and flexion can't be shown in a still because they're dynamic movements?
They describe movement and anatomical positions.
Cannot a hip be extended and the femur be internally rotated?
Was simply asking him to do, rather than just "look", "think", or "believe" things that so many try to base their "conclusions" off of.
Fortunately "Bones" still appears to be curious, and willing to have a discussion...that I'm more than happy to partake in....
It's a breath of fresh air from the typical circle jerk (that's "extension"...lol) that goes on here more times than not.
 
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