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Feb 25, 2020
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i guess i dont know what you are saying. 'A batters hips stop rotating sure.' hips are still extending(moving the torso)'. if you look at the stills you put up the hips are still rotating. so i guess i just dont understand what you are trying to say.

First you say the hips are spent. And it must be the arms Or some other magical force granting a doubling in force.

Then you get hung up on like 15 degrees of rotation in a few stills in which the extension is almost extreme.

And you also claim not to know Wtf is going on in the piazza gif.

I'm about done here.
 
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Apr 11, 2015
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This is almost totally a core movement and not a leg drive movement. . In each turn you see the leg acts lastly as the core is pulling it at the very end.

If you see it differently, please explain.
I just see it as an animation that I happened to find when asked about what I was trying to describe what the movement looked like I was talking about wrt a "test" I've used with plenty of young hitters to learn what drives what, and that's all I could find at the time.

But if you'd like to talk about an "almost totally a core movement" (taking the legs out of) it would look like this...
7l2T3Lr.gif

...where I hope you're able to see that his belly button and hips don't move until the very end of the movement when he hits the full ROM of his core, and it then pulls the belly button and hips ever so slightly before he stops.

Now let's take that exercise one step forward, and bump up the weight to a point where he's no longer able to lift it with just his core like that...what would he (his body) do in order to really lift the now overweighted stack....suddenly, and rapidly?
 
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Apr 11, 2015
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ok thanks. that helps. I just dont think i am good with body part awareness. when you say to only use your 'legs', what muscles should i be trying to activate. And when you say belly button, same question.
Because of the bold third, and fourth sentences, I absolutely agree with you wrt to the second underlined one.

What you may be getting me to realize is more specific than what i was probably saying/thinking. However, maybe my larger question is separating the quads, glutes, hammies from 'all the rest.'. If i say that i dont feel these QGH muscles in my swing, is that a 'valid' comment?

Since IMO there isn't any 'forceful drive' from the rear leg, if you fired those muscles against an unleveraged position, they wouldn't do anything. Just tense up.

So if i disregard the oblique, core, PG, conversation. Can i just ask, as people have compared this to clean and jerk weightlifting, how is the rear leg a source of power if it is not leveraged against the ground? Or are you saying there is a downward force being applied to the ground from the rear leg?
All I'm gonna direct you to is this post I just made to "james"....hopefully going from the "core only" exercise as shown, and then figuring out what you (your body) would automatically (OK, maybe not yours) do in order when quickly and rapidly lift the weights, when your "core only" was no longer able to do so might help you further understand what I'm attempting to explain to you (and others). 🤞

EDIT: Never mind...just listen to what the guy in the video in W=w quote I replied to, and what I wrote him...in the post just below this one here. 👇
 
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Apr 11, 2015
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First thing he said, the very first thing.... "OK, so now we take a look at how this move works from an anatomy lens. So as the pelvis rotates independently of the torso, it stretches the core muscles such as the interior, and exterior obliques". Where in the world did we just hear that a few hours ago?
Hmm, what other body part(s) might be responsible for that moving/turning of the PG ("hips")....that's subsequently "stretching" the obliques (core) against the "resisting" hands/shoulders at that moment in the process/"sequence"? :unsure:
So if it's not the torso rotating the pelvis, and the pelvis can't rotate itself (although I'm sure some flat-earther will insist that it can)...what's all that's left to rotate the pelvis? Rhetorical question, unless a someone believes the arms or maybe the ears rotate it.

Thank you for finding that for me; the whole thing almost word for word of what I've been saying for the past 10+ years now..."from an anatomy lens". Much appreciated, and I'm glad you're beginning to understand what I've been trying to share with you, and others for so long now. Excellent find. (y)👏
 
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Oct 13, 2014
5,471
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South Cali
First thing he said, the very first thing.... "OK, so now we take a look at how this move works from an anatomy lens. So as the pelvis rotates independently of the torso, it stretches the core muscles such as the interior, and exterior obliques". Where in the world did we just hear that a few hours ago?

So if it's not the torso rotating the pelvis, and the pelvis can't rotate itself (although I'm sure some flat-earther will insist that it can)...what's all that's left to rotate the pelvis? Rhetorical question, unless a someone believes the arms or maybe the ears rotate it.

Thank you for finding that for me; almost word for word of what I've been saying for the past 10+ years now..."from an anatomy lens". Much appreciated, and I'm glad you're beginning to understand what I've been trying to share with you, and others for so long now. Excellent find. (y)👏

not quite. As we have learned from others lately. Anatomical knowledge doesn’t tell half the story when hitting. it’s the sequence of movements and the intent of the anatomy that matters. Active hip extension is bad. An active rear leg is bad. Active hip rotation is bad. Active IR is really bad. Really anything active with the lower half is bad. What we want is a stable/reactive lower half so the upper can rotate around it but use what is in the lower half to help power the swing reactively.

the young kid you had doing bucket ‘throws‘ is an active lower body and is not good.

If you want to say the hips go first, ok. But it’s reactive. And no real speed or power gain has been taken advantage of so, congratulations you are good at seeing the hips move first on video !

No good pro is trying to open up that hip. What you’re seeing is slack removal. Some more than others. Mobility levels differ.

the swing is all about slack removal from both ends. it’s always crossbody and opposite actions. Since the core is smack dab in the middle of the body, that’s where all the action is,

everyone forever has wanted the legs to pull the hips and the hips to pull the hands around to propel the barrel to the ball. That’s drag. it’s the opposite stretch after the concentric contraction that is oh so important and gives the ‘late bat speed’ that is needed at the pro level. It’s eccentric. if the lower is active there is no chance for the last stretch to become a reality.

speaking of things like hip extension or the hips moving first etc is truly useless within a good sequence.

sorry mud, I think you’re way off.

1590733019814.gif

1590733223252.gif

1590733495054.gif

1590733661000.gif
 
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May 3, 2014
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It's not surprising some are having trouble figuring this out. Activating the obliques correctly is not easy especially for older people sitting at a laptop all day...

I have college players trying to figure it out. But, eventually they start to feel it (bottom hand swings are really good) even as their body keeps wanting to use other methods of moving the bat as they have been doing forever.

Rick Pauly has a good thread on the pitching side https://www.discussfastpitch.com/threads/creating-correct-core-torque.16719/

The stripe on the leading edge of jerseys move the same in both pitching clips and Bustos below



jmA9iD.gif
 
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