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Apr 11, 2015
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Sorry, mud I disagree (with this movement pattern). Both hips are extending which is why folks speak the importance of the hitting position. The hips extending are reactive to the contraction..
I think both hips extend. The tell tale sign is piazzas front foot coming off the ground and getting sucked back underneath him in his follow through. This is what makes it such an excellent gif in my opinion.

It is tricky because extension occurs with the feet not underneath the pelvis like in the weightlifter.

Piazza is not pushing the leg straight with the quad as much as its getting straightened as the hip extends with his foot on the ground.

A quad push alone results in no hip extension, which means the torso would not be moved as a result and no torque on the bat. A quad push does make it easier for the hamstrings/to extend the hip though I think.

Interesting read here.

Flexion is the opposite of extension. The pelvic girdle is one solid structure, and as stated previously, the only way to make it go in the same direction is for both legs to be acting on it the same way, and in the same direction...ie. the weightlifter.

However, if you have the legs acting on it in opposite directions (one from the rear, and one from the front) as in a baseball swing, you're going to have opposite actions within the hips...one extension, and one flexion.

Sorry, but that's just how it works, and referencing a completely different body part, and joint structure (hip = ball and socket....knee = hinge joint) doesn't apply to or help the understanding of what's happening between the legs, "hips", and PG in the swing.
 
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Feb 25, 2020
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Not seein any hip flexion here.

Screenshot_20200527-122202.png

And his femurs(legs!) are pretty close to being in the same position as the weightlifter's.

The quora thing explains how the knee can get straightened by the hamstring. Which can be confusing.
 
Apr 11, 2015
877
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Not seein any hip flexion here.

View attachment 17970

And his femurs(legs!) are pretty close to being in the same position as the weightlifter's.

The quora thing explains how the knee can get straightened by the hamstring. Which can be confusing.
Only that one leg is flexed, and one leg is extended unlike the weightlifter (who'd hurt himself btw if he did have his legs that same way above with the weight going up).

But hey, who needs academia when we have stills, and can all just say anything we want about them to fit our own interpretations of what we think feel is happening?

EDIT: Wrt the hammy straightening the knee...what's confusing about it...how else would you expect the knee gets straightened...using just the quads? The difference has to do with open vs closed chained movements that will then recruit different muscle groups depending, but we're getting off topic at hand wrt hip extension.

Good discussion all, but I'm gonna have to catch up with y'all later. Till then....take care. (y)
 
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fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
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SE Wisconsin
I'm not sure how to explain it any better. The back leg is already spent by the frames I showed of correa. It's job is done and It's in position so the front hip can extend most efficiently. It doesnt try to slow anything down like some people say.

My advice would be to ditch anything you've read from numb nuts. He is clueless. He spreads so much mis-information that it makes it almost impossible to have any real discussion here.

Edit: The weightlifter does not begin to extend hips until the weight gets to the postion of pic 1. Until then he is merely deadlifting it to get it in position to extend optimally(explode). I apologize. Olympic weightlifting is very complicated also(you can early extend etc.) Hope that helps.
I am not sure who numb nuts is, don't really care. Just asking what specifically the move is that the rear leg supposedly does. Leverage happens on the front side IMO. the rear leg releases any leverage from the ground at GO. there is no push or drive from the rear leg as far as i feel. I feel the core pulling the hip pulling the leg.

Sorry haven't read any further posts so maybe i am being redundant. But i still don't see the similarities, UNLESS, you are telling me that there is an active drive/push from a rear foot that is leveraged forcing extension in the hip. I just don't feel any leverage. I see and feel the rear foot release.
 
May 3, 2014
2,149
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I am not sure who numb nuts is, don't really care. Just asking what specifically the move is that the rear leg supposedly does. Leverage happens on the front side IMO. the rear leg releases any leverage from the ground at GO. there is no push or drive from the rear leg as far as i feel. I feel the core pulling the hip pulling the leg.

Sorry haven't read any further posts so maybe i am being redundant. But i still don't see the similarities, UNLESS, you are telling me that there is an active drive/push from a rear foot that is leveraged forcing extension in the hip. I just don't feel any leverage. I see and feel the rear foot release.
There really aren't similarities between the power lifter and a swing.

In a swing the pelvis moves away from the rear leg and the pressure can be felt at the rear foot. Some people believed this pressure at the foot called "the move" to be an active move. It's reactive. So is the rear leg. It snaps under the pelvis once range of motion is reached. Not one good hitter is actively turning or pushing with his/her rear leg.
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
TDS, Piazza is only extending one hip forward or under him, the other is being push rearward by the straighten, and rearward pushing of the lead leg. The lead hip never goes into extension in a baseball swing.

The only way to have dual hip extension is for the legs, and hip to move in the same direction simultaneously as seen in the weightlifter pics "Bones" posted. Piazza's legs/hips are moving in opposite directions simultaneously.

EDIT: This is what distinguishes a player using their legs/hips correctly or not.

"Rotation" and "jut" are in quotation marks because they are commonly used in laymen terms for what is actually "rear hip extension" in the swing.
I can see and feel there may be/or is extension in the front leg as a function to maintain correct posture, but not a power driver. Legs in my opinion create leverage vs power. The power source is the core.

I think you had an example of swinging on your butt, then your knees etc. I guess i think of this in terms of a car. The tires are you legs. They keep you in contact with the ground. But they are not creating the power. The engine spins and creates the power, sending it down the drive train (spine) to the tires (legs). Like in a drag race, if you can't keep the rubber on the road you spin out. But the power is in the engine. Imagine running the engine by itself without being bolted to anything, it would just take off and spin spin spin. Try it with a little electric motor, its pretty fun.

To me the legs maintain leverage and definitely have to be strong enough to keep the posture by leveraging the front let, but to me the rear leg is a carrier for the body to get to the good leveraged position on the front leg.
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,199
63
I can see and feel there may be/or is extension in the front leg as a function to maintain correct posture, but not a power driver. Legs in my opinion create leverage vs power. The power source is the core.

I think you had an example of swinging on your butt, then your knees etc. I guess i think of this in terms of a car. The tires are you legs. They keep you in contact with the ground. But they are not creating the power. The engine spins and creates the power, sending it down the drive train (spine) to the tires (legs). Like in a drag race, if you can't keep the rubber on the road you spin out. But the power is in the engine. Imagine running the engine by itself without being bolted to anything, it would just take off and spin spin spin. Try it with a little electric motor, its pretty fun.

To me the legs maintain leverage and definitely have to be strong enough to keep the posture by leveraging the front let, but to me the rear leg is a carrier for the body to get to the good leveraged position on the front leg.
Human car tires (legs) have motors (and they happen to be the strongest motors in the human body)
Dead lift is the strongest move a human can do and uses legs and hip extension. Quad, glute and hamstring engines.

Is there a oblique lift or a situp max weight competition?
 
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TDS

Mar 11, 2010
2,926
113
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TDS

Mar 11, 2010
2,926
113
The core pattern has the hands swinging "down to" from a leveraged hitting position.. Some see it as swinging against the hips. The under hood feel is the obliques contracting against the hips extending/rotating .. This is where trying to keep the barrel working within the s-plane allows this to happen naturally..

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