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Oct 13, 2014
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South Cali
I think i may have asked this in another forum after @Bonesaw started expressing opinions on hip extension.

This is not a question just for you Mud but anyone. As I was trying to feel hip extension, i felt like the question that W=W was asking were valid. I felt like my hip ran out of runway and that i got to full extension with no more power.

The difference in the two swings above IMO are the top swing isn't anchored and is posting up with an arm driven swing. Miggy on the other hand is anchoring his back leg and his 'middle' (for a lack of better terms, however i feel the hips do not drive, but are being driven by core muscles - abs and obliques) is what is pulling the rear leg forward. So i didn't think he was driving his hip into extension with his glutes, but rather pulling them with core.

I only comment on this because i tried to feel that movement myself, but it doesn't feel powerful.

So maybe i am just doing it wrong, and the only way i can 'hit with my hip' is if i drive the core to pull the hip to hit.

fanboi,

Bonehead seems to think he knows what’s best. Even though you try these things and they don’t seem to make sense or get results and experts in the field say what I say. But Bonehead knows. He’s never coached or instructed anyone. But his stills, weightlifting videos and long drive videos will get you through. 😆

I liked your analysis of the 2 swings above. Will wasn’t full intent there so, not a reflection of his game swing imo. At the end of the day you gotta trust your gut and what you see on VIDEO. Another anchored swing. Good spacing between the feet. 🤷🏻‍♂️ The back leg is the brakes and creates hip extension. It’s a result. Not an intent imo. Good luck !

1590561876982.gif
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
Its produced by the same movement is what I mean. The weightlifter pulls the weight up. The batter pulls The knob back.

When performing deadlifts at the gym I extend my hips all the time. It is a powerful move.. I’m not saying it does or doesn’t assist in a swing.. I just understand how that movement alone would equal the numbers you mention above, or how you can come to that conclusion, know what I mean?
 

TDS

Mar 11, 2010
2,926
113
I'm not sure how to explain it any better. The back leg is already spent by the frames I showed of correa. It's job is done and It's in position so the front hip can extend most efficiently. It doesnt try to slow anything down like some people say.

My advice would be to ditch anything you've read from numb nuts. He is clueless. He spreads so much mis-information that it makes it almost impossible to have any real discussion here.

Edit: The weightlifter does not begin to extend hips until the weight gets to the postion of pic 1. Until then he is merely deadlifting it to get it in position to extend optimally(explode). I apologize. Olympic weightlifting is very complicated also(you can early extend etc.) Hope that helps.

Bonesaw, so the extension is rear hip then the front hip vs both hips being extended simultaneously ?

3inYg0k.gif


FUYc2gj.gif
 
Feb 25, 2020
953
93
Bonesaw, so the extension is rear hip then the front hip vs both hips being extended simultaneously ?

3inYg0k.gif


FUYc2gj.gif

nice gif! It is complicated. The weightlifter does both at the same time. But he starts in a different position. In any swing I think the rear will go first. If you watch the rory mcilroy sports science they have a good CGI image of his hip bones moving. Pizza has some pretty efficient movements there. I think his rear still goes slightly earlier.

In a swing, the closer the player gets to the position of the weightlifter(femurs parallel) the more efficient the hips will work. Closer to simultaneous between rear and front and quicker. Bonds was the best at this.
 

TDS

Mar 11, 2010
2,926
113
nice gif! It is complicated. The weightlifter does both at the same time. But he starts in a different position. In any swing I think the rear will go first. If you watch the rory mcilroy sports science they have a good CGI image of his hip bones moving. Pizza has some pretty efficient movements there. I think his rear still goes slightly earlier.

In a swing, the closer the player gets to the position of the weightlifter(femurs parallel) the more efficient the hips will work. Closer to simultaneous between rear and front and quicker. Bonds was the best at this.

I would agree close to simultaneous should be the goal.. This is why hitters speak of getting into a hitting position before whipping the barrel.. The contraction of the obliques should be the trigger against the hips which is why you see the hips stop rotation or even see some reverse rotation..
 
Apr 11, 2015
877
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I am having a hard time seeing the similarities. The weightlifter is using the extension to pull the weight straight up from a force pushing into the ground.

Not sure why i remember this, but in my high school physics class my teacher talked something about if your car was stuck in a ditch, what you should do is tie a rope to your front bumper and the other end to a tree as far away as you could. If you pull perpendicular in the middle of the rope it takes less force to move the vehicle rather than pulling the rope straight from the bumper. Think of the strongest man comp, they tug that semi or whatever and it takes alot of energy.

That is what i feel the weightlifters are doing, taking strong muscles and extending the hips to start the weight upwards enough for them to clean and jerk. I am sure there is some scientific word for it.

But when a person is hitting, there is no leverage against the back leg, the rear foot isn't pushing off the ground like the weightlifter is. Unless you are telling me that there is a ground force from the rear foot pushing the hips forward and driving the swing. i just don't see extension as the driver to the swing.
"Bones" is doing a good job explaining it, but for those who need visuals of the same hip extension just applied in a different task and different direction, maybe this will help....
unRFyQm.gif
 
Feb 25, 2020
953
93
When performing deadlifts at the gym I extend my hips all the time. It is a powerful move.. I’m not saying it does or doesn’t assist in a swing.. I just understand how that movement alone would equal the numbers you mention above, or how you can come to that conclusion, know what I mean?

Yes I understand.

Think about it this way. Correa, here, has accelerated the bat to 57 mph in roughly .13-.14 seconds. He has had to apply force to get it to 57 mph. He's accelerated it roughly 430 mph per second to this point.


Screenshot_20200524-095546.png

From here to contact he accelerates it another ~28 mph in roughly .03 seconds. He has to apply force to the bat to accelerate it. No force no acceleration. He accelerates it at roughly 900 mph per second from here to contact.
 
Apr 11, 2015
877
63
Bonesaw, so the extension is rear hip then the front hip vs both hips being extended simultaneously ?

3inYg0k.gif


FUYc2gj.gif
TDS, Piazza is only extending one hip forward or under him, the other is being push rearward by the straighten, and rearward pushing of the lead leg. The lead hip never goes into extension in a baseball swing.

The only way to have dual hip extension is for the legs, and hip to move in the same direction simultaneously as seen in the weightlifter pics "Bones" posted. Piazza's legs/hips are moving in opposite directions simultaneously.

EDIT: This is what distinguishes a player using their legs/hips correctly or not.
That "rotation" or "jut" was the rear leg rotating or jutting the rear pelvis forward, but not if the hitter is using the front leg/hip to simply pull the rest of the pelvis forward on top of itself...which in that case would be "IR" of the lead leg/hip.
"Rotation" and "jut" are in quotation marks because they are commonly used in laymen terms for what is actually "rear hip extension" in the swing.
 
Last edited:

TDS

Mar 11, 2010
2,926
113
TDS, Piazza is only extending one hip forward or under him, the other is being push rearward by the straighten, and rearward pushing of the lead leg. The lead hip never goes into extension in a baseball swing.

The only way to have dual hip extension is for the legs, and hip to move in the same direction simultaneously as seen in the weightlifter pics "Bones" posted. Piazza's legs/hips are moving in opposite directions simultaneously.

EDIT: This is what distinguishes a player using their legs/hips correctly or not.

"Rotation" and "jut" are in quotation marks because they are commonly used in laymen terms for what is actually "rear hip extension" in the swing.

Sorry, mud I disagree (with this movement pattern). Both hips are extending which is why folks speak the importance of the hitting position. The hips extending are reactive to the contraction..

3wLHMQV.gif
 
Feb 25, 2020
953
93
TDS, Piazza is only extending one hip forward or under him, the other is being push rearward by the straighten, and rearward pushing of the lead leg. The lead hip never goes into extension in a baseball swing.

The only way to have dual hip extension is for the legs, and hip to move in the same direction simultaneously as seen in the weightlifter pics "Bones" posted. Piazza's legs/hips are moving in opposite directions simultaneously.

EDIT: This is what distinguishes a player using their legs/hips correctly or not.

"Rotation" and "jut" are in quotation marks because they are commonly used in laymen terms for what is actually "rear hip extension" in the swing.

I think both hips extend. The tell tale sign is piazzas front foot coming off the ground and getting sucked back underneath him in his follow through. This is what makes it such an excellent gif in my opinion.

It is tricky because extension occurs with the feet not underneath the pelvis like in the weightlifter.

Piazza is not pushing the leg straight with the quad as much as its getting straightened as the hip extends with his foot on the ground.

A quad push alone results in no hip extension, which means the torso would not be moved as a result and no torque on the bat. A quad push does make it easier for the hamstrings/to extend the hip though I think.

Interesting read here.

 
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