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BigSkyHi

All I know is I don't know
Jan 13, 2020
1,385
113
I think i may have asked this in another forum after @Bonesaw started expressing opinions on hip extension.

This is not a question just for you Mud but anyone. As I was trying to feel hip extension, i felt like the question that W=W was asking were valid. I felt like my hip ran out of runway and that i got to full extension with no more power.

The difference in the two swings above IMO are the top swing isn't anchored and is posting up with an arm driven swing. Miggy on the other hand is anchoring his back leg and his 'middle' (for a lack of better terms, however i feel the hips do not drive, but are being driven by core muscles - abs and obliques) is what is pulling the rear leg forward. So i didn't think he was driving his hip into extension with his glutes, but rather pulling them with core.

I only comment on this because i tried to feel that movement myself, but it doesn't feel powerful.

So maybe i am just doing it wrong, and the only way i can 'hit with my hip' is if i drive the core to pull the hip to hit.
It's not a bad fungo swing. No stress on the hitter's body LOL
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,199
63
the tiger slam video said the same. Not just me. The truth is you are starting to see it.. you just don’t know how to create it. I will save you some time and tell you to start working on the lower half. Learn how to stop the hips. And it’s not by creating extension. That’s the result.
The big problem is that most of your theories contradict physics so all that left is magic, voodoo, and your imagination.
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,199
63
I think i may have asked this in another forum after @Bonesaw started expressing opinions on hip extension.

This is not a question just for you Mud but anyone. As I was trying to feel hip extension, i felt like the question that W=W was asking were valid. I felt like my hip ran out of runway and that i got to full extension with no more power.

The difference in the two swings above IMO are the top swing isn't anchored and is posting up with an arm driven swing. Miggy on the other hand is anchoring his back leg and his 'middle' (for a lack of better terms, however i feel the hips do not drive, but are being driven by core muscles - abs and obliques) is what is pulling the rear leg forward. So i didn't think he was driving his hip into extension with his glutes, but rather pulling them with core.

I only comment on this because i tried to feel that movement myself, but it doesn't feel powerful.

So maybe i am just doing it wrong, and the only way i can 'hit with my hip' is if i drive the core to pull the hip to hit.
what direction is the force being applied to the handle?
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
Don't take this as an insult Bobby, but I think you me be getting lost in the weeds a little. Some times you need to come back up to a 1000 feet, know what I mean?
 
Feb 25, 2020
953
93
I think i may have asked this in another forum after @Bonesaw started expressing opinions on hip extension.

This is not a question just for you Mud but anyone. As I was trying to feel hip extension, i felt like the question that W=W was asking were valid. I felt like my hip ran out of runway and that i got to full extension with no more power.

The difference in the two swings above IMO are the top swing isn't anchored and is posting up with an arm driven swing. Miggy on the other hand is anchoring his back leg and his 'middle' (for a lack of better terms, however i feel the hips do not drive, but are being driven by core muscles - abs and obliques) is what is pulling the rear leg forward. So i didn't think he was driving his hip into extension with his glutes, but rather pulling them with core.

I only comment on this because i tried to feel that movement myself, but it doesn't feel powerful.

So maybe i am just doing it wrong, and the only way i can 'hit with my hip' is if i drive the core to pull the hip to hit.

The hip extension has to result in force on the bat. I will try to explain it as simply as possible.

Hip extension should ideally end up providing the greatest amount of force (torque) on the bat. And it can do it while the bat is traveling the fastest.


Notice what happens to the weightlifters torso in these two images as he extends his hips. It goes back and up very fast.
Screenshot_20200524-164157.png
Screenshot_20200524-164207.png
That is 180ish kilos (roughly 400lbs). He pulls it with enough force that he can catch it over his head. That is alot of force.

How this works in the swing goes back to bobby's diagram that shows that the bat is swung most efficiently when force is applied perpendicular to the bat.

Now look at Carlos correa (or any pro in this position) and notice which way is perpendicular to the handle. It's the same way his torso goes with hip extension. His left hand is attached to his arm which is attached to his torso. Which moves/exerts force as the hips extend. Very very quickly. Look at his left hand pulling the knob. The knob itself hardly moves in space.

Screenshot_20200524-095546.png
Screenshot_20200526-205701.pngScreenshot_20200526-205725.png

The bat goes from 57 mph to 82 in .025 seconds. That's a lot of force on the bat. Alot larger than the force going from 0-57. Which took .12-.13 seconds.

It's the same kind of force people use to throw 400 lbs over their heads.
 
Feb 25, 2020
953
93
I am intrigued by what you are saying.. but why do you feel it's the same force people use to throw 400 lbs over their head?

Its produced by the same movement is what I mean. The weightlifter pulls the weight up. The batter pulls The knob back.
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
Its produced by the same movement is what I mean. The weightlifter pulls the weight up. The batter pulls The knob back.
I am having a hard time seeing the similarities. The weightlifter is using the extension to pull the weight straight up from a force pushing into the ground.

Not sure why i remember this, but in my high school physics class my teacher talked something about if your car was stuck in a ditch, what you should do is tie a rope to your front bumper and the other end to a tree as far away as you could. If you pull perpendicular in the middle of the rope it takes less force to move the vehicle rather than pulling the rope straight from the bumper. Think of the strongest man comp, they tug that semi or whatever and it takes alot of energy.

That is what i feel the weightlifters are doing, taking strong muscles and extending the hips to start the weight upwards enough for them to clean and jerk. I am sure there is some scientific word for it.

But when a person is hitting, there is no leverage against the back leg, the rear foot isn't pushing off the ground like the weightlifter is. Unless you are telling me that there is a ground force from the rear foot pushing the hips forward and driving the swing. i just don't see extension as the driver to the swing.
 
Feb 25, 2020
953
93
Its produced by the same movement is what I mean. The weightlifter pulls the weight up. The batter pulls The knob back.

I am having a hard time seeing the similarities. The weightlifter is using the extension to pull the weight straight up from a force pushing into the ground.

Not sure why i remember this, but in my high school physics class my teacher talked something about if your car was stuck in a ditch, what you should do is tie a rope to your front bumper and the other end to a tree as far away as you could. If you pull perpendicular in the middle of the rope it takes less force to move the vehicle rather than pulling the rope straight from the bumper. Think of the strongest man comp, they tug that semi or whatever and it takes alot of energy.

That is what i feel the weightlifters are doing, taking strong muscles and extending the hips to start the weight upwards enough for them to clean and jerk. I am sure there is some scientific word for it.

But when a person is hitting, there is no leverage against the back leg, the rear foot isn't pushing off the ground like the weightlifter is. Unless you are telling me that there is a ground force from the rear foot pushing the hips forward and driving the swing. i just don't see extension as the driver to the swing.

I'm not sure how to explain it any better. The back leg is already spent by the frames I showed of correa. It's job is done and It's in position so the front hip can extend most efficiently. It doesnt try to slow anything down like some people say.

My advice would be to ditch anything you've read from numb nuts. He is clueless. He spreads so much mis-information that it makes it almost impossible to have any real discussion here.

Edit: The weightlifter does not begin to extend hips until the weight gets to the postion of pic 1. Until then he is merely deadlifting it to get it in position to extend optimally(explode). I apologize. Olympic weightlifting is very complicated also(you can early extend etc.) Hope that helps.
 
Last edited:
Feb 25, 2020
953
93
I am having a hard time seeing the similarities. The weightlifter is using the extension to pull the weight straight up from a force pushing into the ground.

Not sure why i remember this, but in my high school physics class my teacher talked something about if your car was stuck in a ditch, what you should do is tie a rope to your front bumper and the other end to a tree as far away as you could. If you pull perpendicular in the middle of the rope it takes less force to move the vehicle rather than pulling the rope straight from the bumper. Think of the strongest man comp, they tug that semi or whatever and it takes alot of energy.

That is what i feel the weightlifters are doing, taking strong muscles and extending the hips to start the weight upwards enough for them to clean and jerk. I am sure there is some scientific word for it.

But when a person is hitting, there is no leverage against the back leg, the rear foot isn't pushing off the ground like the weightlifter is. Unless you are telling me that there is a ground force from the rear foot pushing the hips forward and driving the swing. i just don't see extension as the driver to the swing.

Here is my question. Where else does that force come from? The 25 mph in .025 seconds?
 

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