Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Register Log in

Bat Path

Jan 6, 2009
3,298
83
Chehalis, Wa
How so? What direction is the force and how's that rotate the pelvis as the foot drags? Wouldn't drag inhibit rotation?
Drag can cut down on momentum. It also can provide a connection to the ground.

Try it, pitch with no connection too the ground and then use drag too help with the core/pelvis.

If you need examples of both ways just ask.
 
Feb 25, 2020
284
43
you know what I agree. The body works as 1 system to create a swing. In a certain order. It’s not the hips and the hands by themselves. It’s all works together.

folks have been trying to figure out this stuff for 100 years... The fact that you are new to the game and have all the answers doesn’t make you twitch a little bit?
You are the king of the Strawman. I've never said its the hips and the hands.

YOU are the one saying the obliques rotate/extend the hips.

And the only thing that makes me twitch is that people who think the obliques move the hips are instructing players.
 
Oct 13, 2014
2,951
113
South Cali
You are the king of the Strawman. I've never said its the hips and the hands.

YOU are the one saying the obliques rotate/extend the hips.

And the only thing that makes me twitch is that people who think the obliques move the hips are instructing players.
I was just referencing how you think hip extension is the only thing going on or how you say you need to get the bat going ‘fast’ It’s separate thoughts or actions to create a thing. I think the whole body is being used all at the same time. On different directions to create something.
 

TDS

Mar 11, 2010
1,869
83
Bonesaw, you see it as the obliques contracting against extending hips correct ? What controls/drives this process? Hands, rotation, hips extending, hip rotation, hip thrust, obliques ?

 
Feb 25, 2020
284
43
I was just referencing how you think hip extension is the only thing going on or how you say you need to get the bat going ‘fast’ It’s separate thoughts or actions to create a thing. I think the whole body is being used all at the same time. On different directions to create something.

I'm excited here. There is an opportunity for real conversation.

How do you explain the doubling of force in the correa swing near contact (as hips extend and his torso tries to move rearward).

If it's obliques, why wasn't this force consistent through the whole swing? Why doesnt he just accelerate it at 900 mph per second the whole time?

From this position
Screenshot_20200524-095546.png

And "the get the bat going" lines right up with "down to" and the tiger video. Torso rotation and bat path are key because they need to be tight as possible. Speed up the slow part. Hips, in an athlete, will always be there.
 
Oct 13, 2014
2,951
113
South Cali
I'm excited here. There is an opportunity for real conversation.

How do you explain the doubling of force in the correa swing near contact (as hips extend and his torso tries to move rearward).

If it's obliques, why wasn't this force consistent through the whole swing? Why doesnt he just accelerate it at 900 mph per second the whole time?

From this position
View attachment 18044

And "the get the bat going" lines right up with "down to" and the tiger video. Torso rotation and bat path are key because they need to be tight as possible. Speed up the slow part. Hips, in an athlete, will always be there.
I would say the completion of the contraction.

I would not say the hips thrusting or rotating. A 70 year old grandpa can generate the same speed or more as an elite pro. Why? Because it’s not the speed of the pelvis that matters as much as how fast you can stop it to transfer to the next component. Energy transmission is king imo. Not energy production.
 
Feb 25, 2020
284
43
Bonesaw, you see it as the obliques contracting against extending hips correct ? What controls/drives this process? Hands, rotation, hips extending, hip rotation, hip thrust, obliques ?

Yes I think we see the same thing. I would like to see a still of the hitting position to avoid confusion though. If it's before the one of bonds I asked about its probably right up the oblique/"down to" alley.

The hips "thrust" to move the torso back And exert force on the bat when its in closer to the pitcher than the body.(The handle!)

This does not minimize the importance of everything before it though.

I dont think hip extension drives it. I think its the biggest(most important) power adder though.

Like in correa if he doesn't gain 28 mph between the stills, say he only gains 8 mph, he has a decent career on his high school team.

But he gets 28 mph and has the opportunity to play at the highest level.

I say this because I and, I'm sure, countless players get to 57 mph at a similar position but top out at 65-70. Something is different there.

I've had some pretty big jumps in bat speed recently(my hi went from 75.8 to 83.6). And I know it is not easy. Or quick.

I think down to + getting the body in a position to extend(and extend violently) is the best. Some call it FYB. Contract against extension is great.

The Piazza gif is the best.
 
Last edited:
Apr 11, 2015
698
43
Sitting in a chair to isolate the obliques is a great drill and do it all the time with my students.

Three simple frames throw your whole "isolate the obliques" theory right out the window.

Your hitter literally lifts/thrusts herself up off the chair with her legs....
TDS Hitter Chair.gif
...as she uses them to "thrust the hips, and rotate the pelvis and torso violently"...as W=w's video should have taught you by now...


....because you can tell that she's not even contracted her obliques yet...as she has no PPT, and no anterior to posterior tilt in those three frames as of yet, that the video tells you the "ab crunch" of the obliques is responsible for.

Those three frames show the rear leg "thrust the hips" into RHE, as that "rotate(s) the pelvis and torso violently"....as "it stretches the cores muscles such as the interior, and exterior obliques"....that connect the hips, and the ribs that connect to the shoulder girdle, and that "stretch"/connection pulls the shoulder girdle around...as the arms and hands connect the shoulder girdle to the bat...that pulls it around as seen in those three simple frames.

Now that paragraph directly above wasn't written for you or your crew, as I know that none of you care about any of the "technical" accuracies of the swing...but rather that description is for others still trying to determine what actually makes sense to them in the actual workings of the swing or not.

But if you really want to "feel" what "isolate the obliques" would be....have her repeat the drill w/o moving her feet, knees, or legs at all...and then have her swing the bat with only the muscles above her pelvis. That would be a real "isolate the obliques" for the hips drill for your hitter(s).
 
Last edited:
Apr 11, 2015
698
43
I don’t tend to want to know ‘why’. I’m more of a ‘how’ person and ‘for what’. I try things. If they make sense and a difference and match, I keep. If they don’t, I don’t. I learn a lot on here going through convos with everyone, including myself. If that makes sense. So I haven’t given much thought as to why. I am leaning more towards the system as a whole lately; Reciprocally; so imo it’s a reciprocal movement that gets maximized by the offsetting reciprocation. Sorry, not a grand answer.
W=w, that's a fine answer to these discussions. The "whys", or even the "hows" or "whats" are not all that important outside of these "technical" discussions of the swing, and I too don't go into such details with my hitters when working with them.

As I've told you, I think your DD has a fine swing, and as long as what you're doing is working for her, and you're both happy with the results...that's all that ultimately matters at the end of the day. (y)
 
Feb 25, 2020
284
43
W=w, that's a fine answer to these discussions. The "whys", or even the "hows" or "whats" are not all that important outside of these "technical" discussions of the swing, and I too don't go into such details with my hitters when working with them.

As I've told you, I think your DD has a fine swing, and as long as what your doing is working for her, and you're both happy with the results...that's all that ultimately matters at the end of the day. (y)
Pshhhhh. We're busy berating each other here. You need to explain your one leg extension thing! You left me hangin. How can you say both arent extending.

And yes Ww daughter has a nice swing!
 
Top