Baseball vs. Softball

[HasBeenorNeverWas]

Are there any specific differences catching in baseball vs. Catching in softball other than obvious pitch differences?

 

[Eric F]

Depends who you ask. Some coaches - including some that have a very strong online presence and do clinics around the country - teach a style that is different than typically gets used in baseball. This includes the same low receiving stance for all situations, and dynamic body movement to align the head and chest behind the ball. Others teach softball and baseball catching exactly the same (or very close to it), with a secondary stance for throwing situations, and minimal body movement when receiving.

My DD (14yo TB player), started her catcher journey with a "baseball" style approach. Over time, it has morphed into something that works well for her, but is kind of her own hybrid of things. Her secondary stance isn't as extreme as you see in baseball, but she does make some adjustment to facilitate more efficient blocking.

 

[TexAg1998]

Conceptually, mostly the same, but there are some things that girls/women can do easier than boys/men and vice versa. For instance, it is easier for girls to get super low to the ground because of their Q-angle. Boys, on the other hand, can stay right where they are when a foul ball gets hit while someone else retrieves it. Pretty much everything else is the same except for the angle at which the ball travels from the rubber to the plate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[radness]

How about some baseball people crossing over into softball will tell catchers to put their glove next to there chest.
And receive pitch next to their body.

However...
In fastpitch most pitches the spin is moving away from the plate/catcher.
*Pitch starts in strike zone released at pitchers knee and travels out of zone.
Want to receive/ frame pitch out in front to cut pitch off to keep ball closest
to strike zone.

Rather than Baseball pitch starts out of strike zone and comes into strike zone. Receiving ball deep next to body would let pitch travel into zone.

In softball pitch traveling deeper less chance of strike as pitch continues to travel out of zone.
Less chance of framing opportunity.

Perhaps catchers framing
has a greater role in fastpitch?!!

 

[Cannonball]

RADcatcher, I am confused by your post. Wouldn't the plate be 17 inches wide for both and wouldn't the strike zone be, generally, the same? Therefore, wouldn't the demands of catching that pitch be reasonably the same?

 

[radness]

RADcatcher, I am confused by your post. Wouldn't the plate be 17 inches wide for both and wouldn't the strike zone be, generally, the same? Therefore, wouldn't the demands of catching that pitch be reasonably the same?

Are you refering to the last sentence i wrote?

Perhaps catchers framing plays a greater role in fastpitch?

Thats the fun thinking question....
The demands maybe reasonably the same...
However....
How a catcher receives the pitch can
either HELP or hurt the pitch!!!

 

[djcarter1966]

I hadn't thought about the out of zone to in the zone in baseball versus softball given the different release points but it is an interesting thought. Although this is one reason why I think every announcer on TV thinks any high pitch is a riseball, it started low and finished high so it must be a riseball...ugh.

I think there might be a few slight difference but the VAST majority of the concepts are the same

 

[tim_s]

i teach my catchers to start with glove close to body and then go and get the ball when framing for the very reasons RAD outlined......softballs tend to be released in the zone and move out......while baseball is the opposite

 

[Gags]

How about some baseball people crossing over into softball will tell catchers to put their glove next to there chest.
And receive pitch next to their body.
[...]
Rather than Baseball pitch starts out of strike and comes into strike zone. Receiving ball deep next to body would let pitch travel into zone.
[...]
Perhaps catchers framing has a greater role in fastpitch?!!

RAD,

You've been around the game much longer, and obviously much higher levels, than I have. But I've never seen any baseball instruction about putting their glove next to their chest. The only catchers I see do that are 7 and 8 year olds, who are squatting on their toes, with their backs straight up and down. Or am I misinterpreting what you meant?

Glove position (height-wise) should be around the batters knees, far enough in front of their shin guards so that their elbow is not blocked in by their knees. I expect this to be the same for baseball or softball.

As for letting the pitch get deep - again it's the same for either sport, b/c it should be pitch dependent. In baseball, with a RHB and LHP, I'm not going to reach out and stick an outside curveball - I'm going to try to let it get as deep as possible so that it crosses back into the zone. But with a RHP, since it's already crossed the zone, I'm going to try and get it sooner so I catch it centered. If I let it travel too far, my glove may end up by my right knee, making for a poor presentation to the umpire.

I agree framing potentially has a greater role in fastpitch, one reason being I don't see the level of umpire scrutiny in fastpitch as in baseball, but not being an umpire, I acknowledge this to be a purely speculative, weakly supported assumption. And when I started typing this reply, I had a hypothesis in mind that framing is also harder in fastpitch - and may be one of the few male/female differences for the position. Because good receiving, while primarily a result of good mechanics, is also influenced by strength. To paraphrase Mr. Hillhouse, it's one of life's great ironies that God gave women smaller hands, but makes them play with both a larger, and heavier ball.

I had originally typed in "IMO, it's the mass of the ball that makes a lot of difference" - but now that I've actually gone ahead and run the numbers, I don't think the results support my theory. My first ever attempt at calculating the force of an object was telling me a 45mph softball is hitting the glove with 472 Newton's of force, while a 45 mph baseball is hitting the glove with 380 Newton's of force (~25% less). (Pattar & any other DFP professors - please correct as needed!) However, if we make the speeds more realistic, say 60 mph softball vs 90 mph baseball, I get ~850 N for the softball, and ~1500 N for the baseball. (That velocity-squared thing is definitely a game-changer!). That much difference in force would seem to negate any arm / wrist strength difference b/w the male and female athlete.

So I don't know what conclusion to draw from any of this, b/c my initial hypothesis that the heavier ball produces a lot more (unintentional) glove movement, and therefore "sticking" a pitch, or even manipulating the glove post-catch, is all the more harder in fastpitch. But if my layman's physics calculations were correct, maybe we need to re-phrase the question even further and ask "why doesn't framing have a greater role in fastpitch?".

Final disclaimer: I used "Framing" in the traditional sense of keeping strikes a strike, and making close pitches look like strikes. (Sorry TMIB!)

 

[radness]

Gags
Thankyou for your well written post! Good attention to detail on catchers arm location.

My feedback of baseball people crossing over to teach softball...
Came from several/multiple
times hearing the coaching
"Glove a fist away from chest"
( which i disagree with)
Generally it came from people coaching softball younger age teams perhaps dads offering their time volunteering coaching. But unfortunately also heard it from a clinic that was being ran continually.

I like to be able to discuss things here on the Forum so we can think through different philosophies and mechanics.

As far as pitch speed comparison there are charts to show this.
We know a
70 mph sb pitch
equivalent to pitch
92 mph bb
( have seen charts with slightly different #'s)

Havent seen a chart representing the different impact due to different weight and size of the ball.

Very interesting and intelligent discussion you brought up about the weight impact on framing in softball. I am no math Guru that's for sure. However over the years training many catchers...
At a young age it is possible to develop muscle memory and muscle strength with glove work. Where at an early age we can see young fastpitch catchers can handle framing Spin and movement of faster pitching. As we can see young catchers 12 years old catching 60 miles an hour pitching with no problem. Have 13 year olds catching pitchers throwing 65 miles per hour. Equivalently a 60 miles per hour fastpitch softball is traveling in the 80s in baseball.
This is an example of dedicated catchers who train consistently.

*Receiving the ball correctly in the glove certainly helps avoid injury!!
Teach fingers up.
Like a stop sign.
Thumb points east/west
(Not sideways No thumb pointing down)
Reason includes framing strategy.
Also safety!
A good drop heading down caught on the thump can cause injury.
( as some teach just follow or move glove down with pitch. No frame)
Or sideways glove going up for a rise caught on the thumb..again can cause injury.

*Prefer this-
Glove out like a stop sign.
Hands close at the thumb so for a drop turn glove
( like turning a door knob) under pitch.
Can frame or go to dirt to
field dirt pitch
( make the cave)

Rise ball. Simply go straight up
Shave/frame top of pitch
No glove angle adjustment needed.

* Arm is also stronger out front
than bent sideways.
Plus more range utilizing
shoulder rotation.
( less range elbow bent and limited trying to get around pitches. Think of a little kid figuring out how to catch a ball. Always trying to do a backhand elbow bent even when ball is in front of them)


Glad there are different mechanics for everybody to think through!!