barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

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May 12, 2016
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Understood. We will continue to disagree about TTB, but I do understand where you are coming from.
I don't mean to sound argumentative, but I just want to point out, you are not disagreeing with me. I just happen to follow what the best in the game say and do. Big Bobby S said earlier why don't they talk about FYB, Tilt, Posture etc.. I know they do, but when interviewed they obviously focus on what they think is important in the 2 minutes they have, and they all demo down to or direct..
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
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SE Wisconsin
1) I see FYB as a state of dynamic balance that occurs in all good swings. Some hitters have a tendency to shift their weight too far forward and cannot wait on off speed. They are missing the "YB". Others tend to get stuck on their backside and don't shift enough of their weight into the swing. They are missing the "F". In order to be able to hit consistently against good pitching, a hitter must be FYB. Whether the hitter strides or not doesn't matter.
2) On the contrary, swinging from a neck slot position is actually a great drill to capture the TTB feeling. I use it all the time with my hitters. It does prohibit a running start, but that is a different topic. Personally I find a lot of value in a running start, but not all hitters utilize one.
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

1.) is this more of the 'shift and swing' vs 'shift then swing' debate? And i could care less about ™, just trying to understand does he promote more of the second scenario? Stuck on backside?
2.) I guess i was questioning more the definition of TTB. Depending on how you define it i see the hole neck slot complex moving with the tilt, and as long as there is a rigid hand pivot point, the TTB is the act of 'pulling' the barrel around the torso in plane to the ball. Again, i have just heard that TTB can have an initial phase in a tip it and rip it swing vs, no tip neck slot.
 
Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

1.) is this more of the 'shift and swing' vs 'shift then swing' debate? Yes. And i could care less about ™ I understand and respect that., just trying to understand does he promote more of the second scenario? Not sure what you mean by this. If someone's weight shifts too early (some call it lunging), they are susceptible to off speed. Stuck on backside? Some young hitters will have trouble shifting their weight properly. Sometimes it is s hitter that lunges, so they are instructed to "stay back". They overcompensate by not shifting enough. Stuck back.
2.) I guess i was questioning more the definition of TTB. Depending on how you define it i see the hole neck slot complex moving with the tilt, and as long as there is a rigid hand pivot point, the TTB is the act of 'pulling' the barrel around the torso in plane to the ball. Again, i have just heard that TTB can have an initial phase in a tip it and rip it swing vs, no tip neck slot. The hand pivot point will also move with the shoulders. But the pivot is occurring as that movement occurs. Simultaneously. Tip/Rip can also be used to promote TTB. The important thing to remember is that there are several different definitions of TTB. Some people tend to try to exaggerate the movement.

See my replies imbedded in yours...
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
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Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

1.) is this more of the 'shift and swing' vs 'shift then swing' debate? And i could care less about ™, just trying to understand does he promote more of the second scenario? Stuck on backside?
I don't think he promotes getting stuck on the backside but imo in some cases some of the drills that are used can have that effect if the instructor is not carefully monitoring how the drills are translating to their regular swing.
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
See my replies imbedded in yours...
Not sure how to reply to you and keep all your imbedded comments sorry.

TM seems to me to show staying on backside and barely touching front leg, so more over backside. I have tried to watch alot of his stuff, but it is hard to get thru alot of times. STuck back to me i get, i think, which is why i like the dynamic balance theory, i do however believe in more of a 60/40 to backside. I think it is the only way to get the correct tilt and body posture. Otherwise you stand more vertical (from a side view at least)

'But the pivot is occurring as that movement occurs.' Agreed, i had some prior comments about the wrist supination in another thread, and am not sure yet, depending on the barrel starting point, whether there is much supination. i would think there is less in the neck slot, but in an any case goes along with palm up palm down. This is probable where i am telling my DD to try and tilt properly and feel the 'Swing Down' to the ball and keep barrel angle the same as shoulder angle.

Agreed on the many definitions, and that is where the problem starts for me. We started to literally torque the hands like ™ and got severe barrel dump. Now i see it as more keeping the tight pivot point, to 'stay connected' and stay on angle with tilt at launch, swinging down and to the ball. I can see where it can help, but it seems easy to overcoach that aspect of it like i did.
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
I don't think he promotes getting stuck on the backside but imo in some cases some of the drills that are used can have that effect if the instructor is not carefully monitoring how the drills are translating to their regular swing.
Thanks, I guess i just can get my head around the hip slip. I guess that is a one legged vs 2 legged debate. I think he really promotes the one leg almost literally. Again i dont follow him and don't have enough time to watch all his stuff. But it sounds like he says the back leg generates all the power, maybe i am way off base. But how can the back leg be an anchor (with some other posters that i think i agree more with) and generate power. I don't see a push off the ground or am i missing something?
 
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Jun 8, 2016
16,118
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Thanks, I guess i just can get my head around the hip slip. I guess that is a one legged vs 2 legged debate. I think he really promotes the one leg almost literally. Again i dont follow him and don't have enough time to watch all his stuff. But it sounds like he says the back leg generates all the power, maybe i am way off base. But how can the back leg be an anchor (with some other posters that i think i agree more with) and generate power. I don't see a push off the ground or am i missing something?
To be honest, since you mentioned @efastball, personally I don't think what @efastball suggests and what TM suggests is all that different. Create some coil around your rear leg/hip (which is basically what happens when you do what @efastball suggests) and try and hold it or increase it as you move out. You also "pullback" with the upper back as you move out which TM talks about as well as @efastball. The part which TM neglects, or at least doesn't talk about, is moving out in a balanced way such that your head doesn't get too far behind your belly button. Not sure what @efastball thinks about what the role of the hands/forearms are at launch, which obviously TM spends a good deal of time talking about.
 
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