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barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

Jun 8, 2016
6,088
113
Well as you know I care and have passion for the game as well.. You at least have played the game and have an understanding of what its like to be in the box and what it takes.. Others have to just take someones word and claims..
I get that but whenever a parent who doesn't really know what they are looking at puts their kid with a hitting instructor they are doing so based upon a recommendation from somebody, correct? So that risk is always there regardless of whether the claims of efficacy are made by the instructor or by a third party.
 

TDS

Mar 11, 2010
1,775
63
FP26, Patter...

Put yourself in the box utilizing TM's pattern.. Is this the best position to launch the swing from to cover the whole zone ? Any parts of the zone where you may struggle and why ?

 
Jul 16, 2013
3,731
113
Pennsylvania
Then why not call out the matching claims by TM ?
I will offer you two thoughts here Tom.

1) I have been at this a long time. Even before I joined the forums, I have researched a number of different "systems" including people like Charley Lau. I have not found a single theory yet that I agree with 100%. Not one. Yes, some are closer than others, and those are the points of emphasis I tend to gravitate towards.
2) I don't need people to tell me what's wrong about someone else's theory. I'm a big boy and fully capable of reviewing their theory and determining what I like or dislike about it. As an example, I think you are an intelligent guy. And there are aspects of your theory that make sense to me and that I agree with. There are other points that I disagree with. When you talk about your beliefs, I fully appreciate your contributions. When you start bashing other people's beliefs is where I lose interest. And that goes for others as well, including TM. I follow his twitter account. When he speaks about hitting, I will read. When he starts bashing someone (such as Judy...), I simply scroll beyond it. I realize everyone is different, but I have enough faith in "people" (in general), that they are capable of making their own decisions and don't need me telling them what to do.
 
Jul 29, 2013
958
43
Change the angle of the dry swing and one can see the swing down to....



Can you tilt the frame of a Bonds swing? I'd like to see that.

The biggest problem I have is the fact that they say to swing down and hit the top of the ball and drive it on the ground.
Wouldn't it be more correct to say, "Here's my arm position and hand path, I tilt my spine to get on plane so I don't drive the ball into the ground."
Don't you think a statement like that would eliminate a lot of debate.

I posted a link to a SI article where Ted Williams challenged Don Mattingly when Mattingly said he swings down.
Is it the case where what these pros say goes unchallenged because some are so awe struck by the celebrity? So there's no clarification? They all stand around and nod their heads like bobble dolls. A huh, a huh....


Or are the clarifications out there?
I'd like to see a pro talking about setting up the swing plane by tilting his spine rearward before he swings to the ball. Do you know of any?
I've seen the choppers and I've seen Donaldson with a completely different approach. Few are willing to challenge the convention.
I think the emperor has no clothes.
 
Jun 8, 2016
6,088
113
FP26, Patter...

Put yourself in the box utilizing TM's pattern.. Is this the best position to launch the swing from to cover the whole zone ? Any parts of the zone where you may struggle and why ?

I've already stated a number of times what I don't like about his instruction (which is what I am interested in).

AJ has problems with the ball up..so does Trout
hotzone.png


AJ strikes out a lot. He struck out a lot before he worked with TM and he strikes out a lot now. You know who else struck out a lot (for his era at least)? Mickey Mantle. Some hitters strike out more than others. Maybe their mechanics have something to do with it, maybe it doesn't.
 
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TDS

Mar 11, 2010
1,775
63
I've already stated a number of times what I don't like about his instruction (which is what I am interested in).

AJ has problems with the ball up..so does Trout
View attachment 17012


AJ strikes out a lot. He struck out a lot before he worked with TM and he strikes out a lot now. You know who else struck out a lot (for his era at least)? Mickey Mantle. Some hitters strike out more than others. Maybe their mechanics have something to do with it, maybe it doesn't.
Well thanks for playing !!
 
Jul 29, 2013
958
43
Change the angle of the dry swing and one can see the swing down to....



He's looks to be keeping the barrel above his hands relative to his spine angle. I think Bonds et al, let the barrel get below their hands, relative to spine angle.
Then there's a small group who's dry swings are barrel below hands. Alyssa DiCarlo and any student of Michael Lotief (UL) come to mind. Relatively speaking, the "barrel below hands" dry swingers are few and far between. How do they compare in outcomes? BA? OPS? Are they disproportionately represented in the elite group?
 
Jul 29, 2013
958
43
IMO, and I have stated this a number of times on here, there is nothing wrong with longer in space. I do think longer in time (e.g. longer time to contact) is an issue.

In most swings the hands will go down some, right


and in all swings the barrel is accelerated downward initially.

Now the question is are the hands only actively moving down to the ball (which is what the pros show and which most hands to ball demos look like) or being pulled by the core or a combination of both along with the question of whether the torque applied to the handle (which is causing the barrel to be down to and up through) is a reaction (to the pulling core) or a combination of reaction and active (the "snap it" mentality).

I saw it on twitter a while back and then just searched for it the other day.
It would be cool to do an analysis of the path the bat takes and the physical forces and vectors required move the bat along that path to create the barrel speed and direction we see in an elite swing.
I'd love to see the computer program for the batting machine!
 
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