barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[Bobby Shirer]

Didn’t say that, Williams said unable to use “hips” when describing “down to” swing, meaning he was illustrating a swing without leverage, no posture and abaf sequence.. all upper body.

btw a hammer does turn, so does an axe, sledgehammer, tomahawk.. etc. the hammer head turns to the nail when you swing it, pretty simple concept

Meaning he didn't know what he was talking about and you're smarter than he is.

 

[julray]

Meaning he didn't know what he was talking about and you're smarter than he is.

No not at all, obviously Williams understands how to swing a bat. But why don’t share your knowledge on what Williams meant when he said you can’t use your hips when swinging down.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Play nice Bobby, just because you can’t understand what the best hitters in the world are saying doesn’t mean I am twisting things.

Work=wins said:


why do you try to twist and mangle things? Oh yeah to suit your agenda.

Play nice? Like you and WW?
NO WAY! Much more fun like this.

 

[FP26]

Sorry, I don't see the correlation between pattern/sequence.. Every hitter has a pattern and there own sequence.. Not all hitters get into a leveraged hitting position before whipping the barrel.

Part of the difference is that you use the term "sequence" differently than I do. I essentially look at sequence mostly as what happens from just prior to the hitting position and moving forward. I believe you look at it as a more inclusive term.

 

[FP26]

Sorry I disagree.. This was the reason I created the hitting position thread at bbd (to show the pattern differences). Does the rear legged you speak of have the same core dependencies here ?

Perfectly fine to disagree. Doesn't mean you are wrong. Doesn't me I am wrong. Just that we look at it differently. I do appreciate the adult conversation. This type of discussion would be impossible at BBD. The main difference is that while some will claim that the differences are night and day, I disagree. Yes, there are differences, but it is more like night and later that night.

I'm not completely sure what you mean by "core dependencies". But if you mean that the same core muscles are utilized to help change direction, then sure, I can buy that to a certain extent. Previously you brought up a question about direction. Direction in the clip you posted is obviously VERY different. The angle that the barrel is launched in will have an impact on how rear-legged a hitter must be on a given pitch. If the pitch is thrown from under the ground through home plate, the swing above would probably be quite effective. But if the pitch is coming from 60'6" away in front of the catcher, this swing path will not work well at all. As he adjusts his tilt and other processes, the direction the barrel is launched in will change as well.

 

[FP26]

I don't care for that top clip at all. A to B. If he is referring to hand path, it's easy to see that B is in the wrong location. The hitter's hands are several inches above where he has B showing. If he is referring to barrel path, it is convenient that he deleted the frames in between. If he had included them it would be easy to see that the linear path he is implying is not even close to being accurate.

 

[TDS]

Part of the difference is that you use the term "sequence" differently than I do. I essentially look at sequence mostly as what happens from just prior to the hitting position and moving forward. I believe you look at it as a more inclusive term.

So then they're not the same correct ? Why do hitters speak of getting into a hitting position vs prior to ?


I look at the sequence in regards to all movements including the up-front actions.. The up-front pre-swing actions is what allows for one to get into a dynamic fyb leveraged hitting position reactively..

 

[TDS]

I don't care for that top clip at all. A to B. If he is referring to hand path, it's easy to see that B is in the wrong location. The hitter's hands are several inches above where he has B showing. If he is referring to barrel path, it is convenient that he deleted the frames in between. If he had included them it would be easy to see that the linear path he is implying is not even close to being accurate.

I believe he's showing the down to (but could be wrong).

 

[FP26]

So then they're not the same correct ? Why do hitters speak of getting into a hitting position vs prior to ? The hitting position / launch position is important. I thought I already said that. I have no issue with hitters talking about that. In fact, I talk about it. I just use different terms. My only contention is that I am not a fan of "positions" per se. I see it all as flow through... At BBD I have asked several times "if the hitting position is the only thing that matters, why don't hitters simply start that and avoid everything prior to it". Of course that was one of those questions that no one was ever willing to answer. But to me its because it takes the dynamic part of the swing out of the equation. The hitting position is important, but a hitter must arrive at that position on time. You cannot just hold it and wait. Here I go actually bringing up Rich myself... Think about what he refers to as "command position". While he utilizes a command drill, I have never heard or read him suggest that a hitter should stand in the batter's box against live pitching in the command drill position and simply allow the ball to determine when to launch. Even he wants it to be dynamic.


I look at the sequence in regards to all movements including the up-front actions.. The up-front pre-swing actions is what allows for one to get into a dynamic fyb leveraged hitting position reactively.. Exactly what I mean. Different definition of "sequence". That doesn't mean we disagree. I just think that the up-front pre-swing actions that allow one to get into a dyamic fyb leveraged hitting position reactively are going to vary visually from hitter to hitter. Many of the under the hood actions will be the same, but the visual of a no-stride hitter vs. a long stride hitter is quite different. In both cases the goal is to get to the hitting/launch position on time. Mudvnine was nice enough to provide a list of what all of the various gurus call this position. Personally, I use the name "max-stretch". Seems easy for the hitters I work with to understand.

See my answers embedded in your post above...

 

[FP26]

I believe he's showing the down to (but could be wrong).

As stated before, that terminology doesn't work for me. If it works for you and others, that's fine. Your choice...