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Ball ON glove, not IN the glove still an out?

4 girl's dad

Finding my way
Apr 5, 2013
1,920
63
In the stands...
I think it’s funny that rule has to follow every letter of the law until someone brings up where is the top of the strike zone.
Or, as an ump told me today at the Texas Gold Cup, Gold Bracket game:” I can see that she is starting with her foot behind the pitching plate AND that she is losing contact with the ground, but I’m not calling IP, coach.”

Or the plate ump, that called delay of game on the opposing defense, but would not give my batter a ball....

So, I have no idea where the line is....

And I know ”protest” is said here a lot but that wasn’t happening at this event.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,387
63
"Or, as an ump told me today at the Texas Gold Cup, Gold Bracket game:” I can see that she is starting with her foot behind the pitching plate AND that she is losing contact with the ground, but I’m not calling IP, coach.”

You should have immediately called for the UIC to be called to the field and ask them if they were ok with their umpires acknowledging the pitcher was illegal but were refusing to call it.
 
Aug 1, 2019
164
28
South Carolina
I'd never challenge it if an umpire call my player out with a tag as described. Ball in hand in glove ETC..

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That's irrelevant to the fact that the rules are clear on what constitutes a proper and legal tag.

And knowing now what is and isn't a proper tag, if you did see an improper one on the potential game-tying run in the championship game, and the umpire rules an out to end the game in favor of the opposing team, you honestly wouldn't challenge it?
 
I would not challenge. If ball beat runner there and defensive player has ball in hand and hand and glove together at tag. Umpires call would stand. Just like when the ball passes the batter even with the letters for strike 3 and ump calls ball. When clearly the letters are below the armpits. We play the sport and let the ump call the game.
 

4 girl's dad

Finding my way
Apr 5, 2013
1,920
63
In the stands...
"Or, as an ump told me today at the Texas Gold Cup, Gold Bracket game:” I can see that she is starting with her foot behind the pitching plate AND that she is losing contact with the ground, but I’m not calling IP, coach.”

You should have immediately called for the UIC to be called to the field and ask them if they were ok with their umpires acknowledging the pitcher was illegal but were refusing to call it.
Should have but had we won, we would have had the same set of umps again and it would have been worse.

Worst umpiring I have seen ever, especially to have been a “quality“ tourney.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,387
63
Umpiring will never get better unless someone starts using the word protest and calling out the umps when they admit something and still refuse to call it.

Let me caveat that, bad umpires will never get any better unless coaches use the word protest and call them out when they are wrong.

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May 29, 2015
1,593
113
I agree Comp. I don’t understand why people take such issue with the word “protest”. There certainly are times that it is a perfectly reasonable recourse. With tournaments, it also should not hold things up IF handled with a properly designed process.

We make mistakes. It happens. But we won’t learn from them if we are never corrected.
 
Aug 1, 2019
164
28
South Carolina
I agree Comp. I don’t understand why people take such issue with the word “protest”. There certainly are times that it is a perfectly reasonable recourse. With tournaments, it also should not hold things up IF handled with a properly designed process.

We make mistakes. It happens. But we won’t learn from them if we are never corrected.
That’s because idiot sanctions like USSSA mandate in their rule books that a coach has to pay a fee to file a protest. And in sanctions that don’t like USA Softball, they still have idiot tournament directors or other organizers who require these fees.

So coaches are understandably leery of filing an official protest, even when they’re certain that they are right and the umpires are wrong, because they feel that the person resolving the protest is also going to get it wrong. And then they’re out of $200 or more.

The protest is a legal tool given to the coach to get a rule interpretation ultimately correct. Why should that tool come with a price? It’s a disincentive that has no place in the game. We don’t charge a coach a fee to make a substitution, or to appeal a base-running error or a checked swing. Umpires should be held accountable if they can’t remember a rule. Don’t protect umpires by charging coaches money to get a call right. Protest fees should be illegal and done away with, period.


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Jun 7, 2019
144
28
That’s because idiot sanctions like USSSA mandate in their rule books that a coach has to pay a fee to file a protest. And in sanctions that don’t like USA Softball, they still have idiot tournament directors or other organizers who require these fees.
I think some nominal fee - maybe $10 or $20 tops - might be appropriate, just to prevent frivolous protests on every rule someone doesn't know.

But other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said. I thought our local USSSA protest fee of $100 was excessive, but now I see you said it could be $200 or more! All that does is prevent coaches from exercising their right to dispute what they think - or know for sure - was a mistake made by the umpire in rule interpretation or application.

Here's a perfect example of one such incident, involving yours truly. Earlier this year in the spring, I'm behind the plate in a 14U USSSA tournament. Good game between 2 decent teams. The offensive coach tells me his DP is going in to play defense. I said, "For your Flex?", and he said, no, for the player in the 8 slot. While I know this, for some reason I had a brain fart. I told him I wasn't sure he could do that, and he replied that he was sure he could. There were only 3 fields, and the UIC was close by. I told the coach to hold on for a second, and I'd ask the UIC. He answers his phone right away, and before I could ask him a simple yes/no question, he said he was at the RF flag pole and he'd be there in a minute. The coach and I were pleased that we'd resolve the issue in no time and just move on, without any issues. UiC gets there, and as I'm about to ask him a simple question, he says, "Coach, I understand you want to protest a rule, is that right?" Not really, we just want to know if..." UIC politely cuts him off and says, "You'll have to lodge a protest, and there's a $100 fee to do so. If you're right, you'll get it back." The coach declined, even though he knew he was right. Nobody was satisfied, and while it didn't affect the game at all, both the coach and I were disappointed. We could have resolved it in 30 seconds, and we all would have felt that justice had been served.

$10-20 would have been OK. No one wants to lay down $100 or more and risk losing it, especially if sometimes they're right.
 

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