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Backswing - thinking of getting rid of?

Nov 26, 2010
4,209
83
Michigan
DD is a lefty. She is very comfortable with having a backswing but it goes way behind her back. Shoulders not even close to being square with the catcher. She has a tendency to always stride way over to the left (worried a little on this because sometimes part of foot outside pitching box). Surprisingly, she still has pretty good control. She was told by pc to not get rid of backswing over a year ago - try to keep knuckles forward. She said she has been trying but arm always goes to the same spot - mind block. Time to get rid of or keep on working?
Does it look like this?
 

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Sep 29, 2014
2,337
83
Well whatever instructors tell you we usually want to imitate success....i could go on but you get the idea, this is usually in sync with the height of the back swing being the point they are really getting into that first "h" position we talk about before everything comes forward....yes there is a school of thought that says never show the ball and back swing isn't needed...but I'm just showing you what the best in the world do you can do whatever you want. ;) You will notice the ball is being held in different positions, I'm going with style on that one, my first position check is usually 3 o'clock ball facing in.
 

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Jan 17, 2020
28
3
Doesn't look like that. Her arm only gets as high as 9 o'clock but goes on a diagonal from starting position to behind the middle of her back.. Still trying to post vid from coaches eye.
Thanks for sharing the still pics. Cat's style is closest to what we were told as far as keeping the knuckles forward. Tough to tell if the top of her back swing is at the same time as h position with her arm going so far behind her back. Ball looks to be facing in at 3 o'clock so that's good.
 
May 5, 2019
29
3
Well whatever instructors tell you we usually want to imitate success....i could go on but you get the idea, this is usually in sync with the height of the back swing being the point they are really getting into that first "h" position we talk about before everything comes forward....yes there is a school of thought that says never show the ball and back swing isn't needed...but I'm just showing you what the best in the world do you can do whatever you want. ;) You will notice the ball is being held in different positions, I'm going with style on that one, my first position check is usually 3 o'clock ball facing in.

I would agree that these are some of the better "older" pitchers in the world, but I would not define them solely on the fact that they back swing, as that was the predominant style taught to most young pitchers in their decades of learning. Most of these women are in their 30's or older so lets let some of the younger straight out of the glove pitchers age a little before we go that far out on a limb, besides the counter argument will always be the best male pitchers in the world come straight out of the glove. Ironically, pick 3 is Rick Pauly's daughter who from what I have seen and heard teaches no back swing now to his students. There is probably an 80/20 split on back swing versus no back swing out there, and I have seen some pretty elite pitchers switch to no back swing in order to help prevent pitch picking. If you speak to some of the elite college coaches and told them you were teaching a child to pitch, I think you would find that if they had to pick they would tell you to begin day one out of the glove, but that might just be my honest humble opinion/guess!
 
Sep 29, 2014
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@hootie13 Don't get me started on why men don't have a back swing ...I'll let you figure it out.... Bill will just start piling on me so I'm not going there again but I do stand by my opinion although compared to Bill it's not worth much.
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,337
83
Doesn't look like that. Her arm only gets as high as 9 o'clock but goes on a diagonal from starting position to behind the middle of her back.. Still trying to post vid from coaches eye.
Thanks for sharing the still pics. Cat's style is closest to what we were told as far as keeping the knuckles forward. Tough to tell if the top of her back swing is at the same time as h position with her arm going so far behind her back. Ball looks to be facing in at 3 o'clock so that's good.
If you mean her arm circle is not straight and goes behind her , then out, then back again yeah thats not good...as much as I'm not a wall drill fan you could have her try it a few times just as a check and to get the feel right.
 
Nov 25, 2012
1,116
63
Texas
IMHO, its all about timing your body. Backswing versus no backswing can be argued all day long. Oldest DD, went from backswing to no backswing back to backswing. I swore she got faster (and she did) when she switched to no backswing. Then I swore got faster when she went back to back swing (and she did). Looking back, it was because she got older and stronger. The issue that it took forever to see and most importantly for her was the timing piece. When she went from no back swing to backswing she moved forward to fast. IE her drive created TOO much overlap. Look at Finch, DGourley, Amanda, they don't really go forward until they reach the top of the backswing. The opposite with overlap but it works for them. When we changed to getting to the top and then going, everything changed. It was timing. Not that overlap is bad and it is really good in many situations but you have to time everything up and that is the biggest challenge IMHO for many girls.
Youngest DD, started with the backswing, and we could not connect the timing. Switched her to straight out of the glove and she hasn't looked back. Just works for her and the timing of the drive is perfect with not having a backswing.

It can be a challenge but often times in my opinion it is more timing the body to work together than having a backswing or not. Timing!
Of course, there is the picking pitches issue and that is a whole other thing but IMHO the last thing to worry about until you get timing down.

S3
 
May 5, 2019
29
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@hootie13 Don't get me started on why men don't have a back swing ...I'll let you figure it out.... Bill will just start piling on me so I'm not going there again but I do stand by my opinion although compared to Bill it's not worth much.
[/QUOT

It is like democrats and republicans on that topic, neither will convert. I have had some extensive conversations with an elite pitcher who went pro and after leaving Florida State she converted to straight out of the glove and lost nothing in her pitch effectiveness or speed. This type of case best represents the argument of it really doesn't matter...
 
Sep 29, 2014
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Completely agree it is a style thing the pitchers just have to make sure the timing is working. and per @STRIKE3 comment for pitchers with a back swing the consistent thing I see is the top of the back swing is the moment they are fully back with their weight and muscles completely loaded then as the arm starts to come forward the rest of the body begins to unload as well from the bottom up.
 
Feb 17, 2014
543
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I think it is a personal preference thing. My DD has gone back and forth over the years. Like many have already said, it doesn't matter. Getting your body in the right sequence is key.

I wouldn't listen to anyone who said they tried it for 2-3 pitches and hated so its a bad idea. 2-3 pitches isn't long enough for anything. Pitching is complex. It takes a lot more than 2-3 pitches to figure something out. But you probably already know that. :D
 
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