Alliance vs. PGF???

[Orange Socks]

I saw a video on IG with Scott Smith (Bombers)and two of his players being interviewed which is pretty cool. A couple of takeaways I got. The format is tough...freaking tough! There are no pool games, which means EVERY game matters. He said TB is supposed to prepare these players for college. He's right. There are no pool games in college and every game counts. And in college you have to play the same team 3 times in a weekend. You think the college coaches like this format? He said that it has taken him 10 years of hunting down the "big dogs" and now his team is the one being hunted. Good for him and his team. He had to go through the guantlet to get to the finals. Batbusters, Corona Angels, FC Rico. They have only allowed 4 runs all week. And...The college world series is played in OK not Huntington Beach and in a stadium. Alliance has done a fabulous job of providing swag, media attention, all star game-FREE to watch, etc. Yeah, it's Hot. But it's Hot everywhere except Huntington Beach. You go where the best competition goes.

Think about this. You play for an SEC or Pac 12 team. You face the same competition all year and then you go to the Supers and then to the finals only to face the same teams from your conference. With the Alliance format you gain points throughout the season to earn your spot by playing pre set games. Some of the games are pool games within a tourney. Guess what, that game now means something and you are gonna do your best to win it. Pools games that mean something...what a concept.

I am glad my original post got revived! I thought we were getting somewhere except for few C19 comments.

https://gfp.tournamentusasoftball.com/i!/tournaments/tournamentDetails.php?TID=48275 here's the link to the tourney. Still a little clunky. I prefer Tourney Machine.

 

[radness]

Think the format is good for people to experience.

Also think teams/coaches will have to take a deeper look at prepairing rosters for it.
Hmmm deeper rosters...
Like needing more legit pitchers

Kinda have to chuckle a little at the comment
Go where the top teams go.
Those top teams here in calif play eachother all the frickin time!
Lots of tcs competition invite div's.
+They host their own invite only friendlies and showcases.

So cal athletics (befor 2020)
Hosted one of the best 20 team invites in so cal.
Every top team playing including out of stste teams.
.
Just examples that alliance is not the only place big games happen.

Certainly there are other long term ( over 20 years) softballers in the chatroom who can recall the blossoming of new venues.
Hurray exciting. Hurray something new. Geeez same people?
Still...
Glad there are options!

 

[radness]

To the point of prepairing teams/players for college.
~If you want to do a better job of that.
Play 7 innings!
1:50 minimum!!!

Start by actually playing what is an entire game.

Hellllloooooo....

 

[Orange Socks]

Think the format is good for people to experience.

Also think teams/coaches will have to take a deeper look at prepairing rosters for it.
Hmmm deeper rosters...
Like needing more legit pitchers

Kinda have to chuckle a little at the comment
Go where the top teams go.
Those top teams here in calif play eachother all the frickin time!
Lots of tcs competition invite div's.
+They host their own invite only friendlies and showcases.

So cal athletics (befor 2020)
Hosted one of the best 20 team invites in so cal.
Every top team playing from out of state also.
Just examples that alliance is not the only place big games happen.

Certainly there are other long term ( over 20 years) softballers in the chatroom who can recall the blossoming of new venues.
Hurray exciting. Hurray something new. Geeez same people?
Still...
Glad there are options!

There is a reason that my DD's team never had to travel outside of Houston in the Fall. Why? Because all the great teams would come to Houston. Bombers Exposure, Ronald McDonald, Scrapyard invite(we don't discuss that anymore), AE Gold Cup, etc. Cali...same situation. Summer is different. I was on the first Alliance zoom call before it all started. Smith and McCorkle have been trying to figure out some sort of WCWS similar format for many years and C19 made it possible. They were only thinking about the Texas area. Apparently other coaches around the country liked it too and has turned into what it is today. After the dust settles, let's see what happens.

 

[Orange Socks]

To the point of prepairing teams/players for college.
~If you want to do a better job of that.
Play 7 innings!
1:50 minimum!!!

Start by actually playing what is an entire game.

Hellllloooooo....

The Big Tourneys have been doing that. Not necessarily the local showcases.

DD's last tourney at TCS Nats, they were working their way through the loser's bracket. 3 back to back 7 inning games, except the first one. Run ruled the other team--Thanks Goodness!!!

 

[radness]

There is a reason that my DD's team never had to travel outside of Houston in the Fall. Why? Because all the great teams would come to Houston. Bombers Exposure, Ronald McDonald, Scrapyard invite(we don't discuss that anymore), AE Gold Cup, etc. Cali...same situation. Summer is different. I was on the first Alliance zoom call before it all started. Smith and McCorkle have been trying to figure out some sort of WCWS similar format for many years and C19 made it possible. They were only thinking about the Texas area. Apparently other coaches around the country liked it too and has turned into what it is today. After the dust settles, let's see what happens.

Growth is good! Which the different format added.


What is your thoughts about prepairing rosters for it?

 

[benjey]

My $.02 from a northeasterner perspective

DD's team played in PGF in 2019(scheduled to go last year but Covid) played in Alliance this year knocked out in Super Regionals (Round of 16) by one of the teams playing for the chip today.

PGF
Pros-Incredible weather, definitely more fun for the girls, places to go beaches etc.., very good competition

Cons- Overly political bid process big name orgs handed bids while the only "northeast" qualifying tournament was in Virginia Beach. Quick geography lesson Virginia is not the Northeast. Blind draw can lead to some exceptionally difficult or easy advancement paths

Neutral-Pool/showcase games- meaningless games but do give college coaches a prescheduled way to come watch kids play. Once you get into bracket it can make it difficult as coaches can't plan in advance when they will be able to come see your team play. My preference is for the Alliance format with this but I may be biased because DD is committed.

Alliance
Pros- Qualifying process is straight forward, earn it on the field. Is there some regional bias? Sure NEFL only received one bid for the winner of the qualifier some regions the top 4,6,8 at the qualifier received bids but truthfully there is more depth in those regions so some bias is probably justified. The format is great, anybody familiar with the NCAA tournament should understand it as it is exactly the same although it is compressed which leads to a con I'll get to. The competition was the best I have seen. Most of the top tournaments have lots of great teams but plenty of fluff as well. From day 1 of the regionals all games count not only too advance but also to avoid the extra games of coming out of the loser bracket. Very important considering the conditions

Cons
The weather is brutal, the WCWS can be hot in late may/early June but the regionals and supers are played at campus sites. Late July all games played in OKC is guaranteed to be oppressive, especially since the format is condensed in comparison to the NCAA with all games in a 6 game span. This is exacerbated with the traditional TB roster being much smaller than a college roster as Rad mentioned. The problem is managing a much larger roster that would be ideal for this one tournament is likely not practical for the rest of the TB year. Plus the thunderstorm threat can wreak havoc on the schedule.

So someone figure out a way to give me the Alliance format at the PGF fields and you have now created the perfect Nationals experience

 

[radness]

So someone figure out a way to give me the Alliance format at the PGF fields and you have now created the perfect Nationals experience

...umm college format
( same teams too)

 

[wi_dad]

We just got back from Alliance daughters last go, they didnt win it, but I couldnt be happier of where her travel ball ended. There are a few things I would love to see put into place, but overall it was a great time and format. As far as costs as mentioned above I spent a ton less in travel and lodging.

I would like to have seen more upsets than just the one, daughters team came extremely close to knocking off one of the big dogs, but that is what is so awesome about this format, you can qualify earn your keep all summer long to get placed higher, or even be an outlier team, or newly formed team and compete to knock off the favorite and make a name for yourself, with a sh** ton of college coaches watching cause that number 1 seed is for sure bringing them out.

PGF has the weather and that's about it, higher costs for us, the amount we spent going to PGF Nationals in the past and Alliance isnt even comparable, same teams in our area are getting invites regardless of how good or bad the team is year in year out. Those pool play games are predetermined fields, sites, and opponents.

OKC in late July yes its going to be hot cant do anything about that.

If anyone has there ear I would love to see a selection show or recorded zoom meeting not just for number 1 seeds but all seeding, and some whys this will hush some of the naysayers, I would love to see a system where coaches can log on after games to judge umps and as the tournament dwindles down those umps with poor reviews are sent home, those umps with higher reviews stay, and are rewarded a bonus or higher pay, umps with lowest reviews not asked back following year.

 

[Eric F]

Neutral-Pool/showcase games- meaningless games but do give college coaches a prescheduled way to come watch kids play. Once you get into bracket it can make it difficult as coaches can't plan in advance when they will be able to come see your team play. My preference is for the Alliance format with this but I may be biased because DD is committed.

IMO, this is a very important part of the PGF equation. It's really 2 events back-to-back...showcase, followed by tournament. The showcase/pool games are meaningless to a team's placing in bracket play, and are the best chance to get college coaches out to see the games. It also means more softball games get played. making the trip more worthwhile for those who are travelling from other areas. I would be unhappy to travel to OKC, and be done after just a couple of games.

Looking at the 16U and 18U PGF brackets this year, it seemed like there were more strong teams from states that aren't generally considered softball powerhouse areas than we've seen in the past. This is a good thing.