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After a walk continuing to second with ball in circle

Mar 14, 2017
234
18
Michigan
Help me out on this one... there is a discussion in a Facebook forum and people are arguing out or safe. I don't have current rule books and can't cite a rule & urban legends of "rules" that aren't really rules are being cited.

A batter draws a walk.
The ball enters the circle.
The batter touches first and continues past first in a straight line toward right field. She is running along the foul line the whole way.
She turns 180 degrees and walks back toward first base still along the foul line.
As she gets about 1 foot from first base she breaks toward second base and beats the throw and is safe.


Again, without a rule book to check the wording I think she's safe, because she never stopped or changed direction. Others contend that her walking back to toward 1st after over running it was her decision to overrun and return to the base, similar to as if she rounded toward second and then came back to first, so that breaking toward second is another change of direction and she's out.

There is a video, but it's from the posters facebook account and I'm not sure how to save it and repost it, but I'll try.


 
Jun 22, 2008
3,314
63
It is a lookback violation in every ruleset except NCAA. I know exactly which thread you are discussing, it has over 500 responses the vast majority of them wrong.

The rule for multiply rulesets has been posted numerous times throughout that thread.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Jun 7, 2019
119
28
I've seen this play pulled off successfully, but with legal timing. The way it's supposed to work is for the runner to watch to see if anyone is covering 2B while she's walking back to 1st. If no one's covering, she waits on the release of the throw back to the pitcher and breaks for 2nd - but BEFORE the pitcher has it in the circle.
 
Aug 20, 2017
381
43
I've seen this play pulled off successfully, but with legal timing. The way it's supposed to work is for the runner to watch to see if anyone is covering 2B while she's walking back to 1st. If no one's covering, she waits on the release of the throw back to the pitcher and breaks for 2nd - but BEFORE the pitcher has it in the circle.
This is correct but only after the ball is put in play. Can’t do after a walk
 
Mar 14, 2017
234
18
Michigan
It is a lookback violation in every ruleset except NCAA. I know exactly which thread you are discussing, it has over 500 responses the vast majority of them wrong.

The rule for multiply rulesets has been posted numerous times throughout that thread.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Not in the one I'm in. It has 15 responses and things like "you have to turn to the right or it's considered an attempt toward second base" is the main rule cited.
 
May 29, 2015
773
63
Not sure what ruleset they were using (based on umpires’ uniforms it isn’t USSSA and likely isn’t USA unless they are wearing the old navy ASA jerseys) but that is an LBR violation all day long and twice on Sundays.

What rule set would you like the citation for? Here is the NFHS circa 2016. Applicable section in bold.

NFHS (2016)
Rule 8 Batter-Runner and Runner
SECTION 7 (F.P.) LOOK-BACK RULE
ART. 4 . . . Responsibilities of batter-runner after completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has the ball within the 16-foot pitching circle, including a base on balls or a dropped third strike are as follows:

a. A batter-runner who rounds first base toward second base may stop, but then must immediately, without stopping, return to first or attempt to advance to second base.
b. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, turns left and immediately stops, must then return non-stop to first or attempt to advance to second base.
c. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, turns left and moves directly toward second base and stops is committed to second and must attempt to advance non-stop to second base.
d. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, turns left and moves back toward the infield in any direction except directly toward second base is committed to first and must return to first base.
e. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, and turns right, is committed to first base and must return to first base.

PENALTY: (Arts. 2, 3, 4) The ball is dead. "No pitch" is declared when applicable, and the runner is out. If two runners or more are off their bases, when one is called out, the ball is dead and other runners are returned to the last base touched. Only one runner may be called out.

EXCEPTION: The runner will not be declared out if a play is made on another runner (a fake throw is considered a play), the pitcher no longer has possession of the ball within the 16-foot circle, or the pitcher releases the ball on a pitch to the batter.
 
Jun 6, 2016
908
43
Chicago
I have a question. Does the pitcher making a play on the runner matter at all? And if not, when does the pitcher making a play matter?

I always see in those first and third/LBR threads people say to have the pitcher just hold the ball (because the runner on third is at risk of being put out if she leaves the base once the pitcher has the ball in the circle and the runner reaches first), but if the pitcher makes a play on the runner going to second, LBR is negated.
 
Jun 7, 2019
119
28
This
This is correct but only after the ball is put in play. Can’t do after a walk
Correct. I have no idea what the coach or player was thinking. After the walk, the ball goes right back to the pitcher. Even after beating out a base hit in the IF, it's not all that easy. But a routine single through the IF and a defense that isn't paying attention, now you've got a chance to pull it off.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,314
63
I have a question. Does the pitcher making a play on the runner matter at all? And if not, when does the pitcher making a play matter?

I always see in those first and third/LBR threads people say to have the pitcher just hold the ball (because the runner on third is at risk of being put out if she leaves the base once the pitcher has the ball in the circle and the runner reaches first), but if the pitcher makes a play on the runner going to second, LBR is negated.
Making a play does turn off the lookback rule, but what you are being told about holding the ball is to get the lookback rule activated when the batter/runner touches first base so the runner at 3rd must immediately either advance, return or stay on 3rd base. The pitcher still has a couple of seconds after that to play on the runner advancing to 2nd. The first and third deal usually stops at good 12's and 14's. It is very easy to get both outs with a team that has practiced defending it correctly.
 

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