Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Register Log in

2 seam and 4 seam pitches

May 13, 2008
832
0
My DD will take a two seam grip, follow-thru from right hip to left hip and get a nice little drop curve action going.

I hope Hillhouse doesn't read this.
 

FJRGerry

Abby's Dad
Jan 23, 2009
202
0
Collegeville, PA
Learning the drop curve my 13 yo daughter uses a two seam grip where the index & middle fingers of her right hand are just touching the parallel seams. Her winter pitching coach had her try more of a four seam approach, but she prefers the two seam since it gives her better feel.
 
Jan 24, 2009
618
0
DD throws both. Using identical fastball mechanics, a 4 seam grip tracks straight and drops if it spins fast enough. Hold it with a 2 seam grip and the ball moves a few inches left or right.

Since a 2 seam grip thrown as a fastball moves, this is her fastball unless she has some control issues. If she needs to just groove it, she uses the 4 seam grip and it is very straight.

I have not yet figured out why the 2 seamer moves left sometimes and right others, but it is quite noticeable. I stopped trying to figure that one out as the unpredictability is a handy feature. We have left the 4 seam grip almost entirely except for the peal drop she is working up.
 
Aug 21, 2008
848
28
Vdub

the ball moving left or right is soley because of finger pressure. Intentional or not, she is squeezing harder with one side of her hand (or finger), which makes the ball cut in that direction. This can be done with 4 seams, just as easy as 2 seams.

I've heard a pitching coach once say that a 2 seam riseball will move just as much as a 4 seam and I almost threw up in my mouth. This argument is made for the drop also and it's equally as crazy.

Keep in mind, with the way hitters are taught today, mediocre pitchers can get away with things and it makes them look like champions. However, when facing top of the line hitters, they are trying to do 1 of 2 things: Read the pitcher to know the pitch before its thrown. Or if they can't do that, they read the rotation of the pitch to know how it's going to move. In a perfect world, you want your rise to spin as close to backward as you can get. and Your drop to spin forward with 4 seams so out of the pitcher's hand the hitter will have a hard time detecting which direction the ball is spinning. Throwing with 2 seams provides a "looser" rotation and is easier to see for the hitters.

But still, the 2 seam side to side movement is strictly finger pressure. If she works on it consciencely, she will get it and control it and do it at will.

Bill
 
May 9, 2008
432
0
Hartford, CT
2 seam 4 seam fastball

my dd is just about 13. play LL and 12U travel. not middle school.

How would we utilize a 2 seam fastball versus a 4 seam?
How do we teach her how to throw 2 seam?

She has a good 4 seam fastball...47 ish mph & hits corners well.
She has a decent change up ....

Staying away from pitches requiring too much wrist stuff for a little longer...
hasn't hit full puberty yet.
 
Go back and read Bill's post----he's right on.
Many unknowing/self proclaimed pitching experts think that a two seam dropball grip is the way to go for a roll drop. They think the pitcher gets her hand turned over the top of the ball and thus gets four seams spinning into the air stream.
In reality the ball for 95% of the roll droppers comes out of the hand in a peel action----the rolling of the hand happens long after the ball has departed the fingers. Thus it makes more sense to grip with four seams and get the benefit of the added turbulence/pressure differential. You can throw a great straight peel or get some small degree of side spin to create a drop curve with the four seam grip.
Now having said all that, the most important aspect of a good drop ball is not seam orientation or spin rate---it is release angle. Everything else is significantly less important.
Oh, and as an opinion, the other 5% of roll droppers that may sort of get some of their fingers/wrist turned over the ball prior to release------most of those are slow round house breaking/easy to read dropballs.....and talk about body contorsions to make this happen, ouch.
 
May 9, 2008
432
0
Hartford, CT
2 seam 4 seam

She's been playing with 2 seam ...
...definitely not same spin as 4 seam...
but it does move around a bit ... look like strikes on way in, but go right or left a bit...not consistent yet

May start playing around with a peel drop ...

Very hesitant to start the pitches where the wrist turns contortes too much.

As long as she doesn't throw one down the middle, she is very effective with only 2-3 pitches and 46-47 mph at 12U.

She loves long toss. She practiced here for over and hour then she was the pitcher at practice for over an hour ... says legs are tired but otherwise fine.

May 2 first tourn...
..if we could only get her to swing a bat in this century ...sigh...
 
Feb 14, 2009
23
0
Vdub

the ball moving left or right is soley because of finger pressure. Intentional or not, she is squeezing harder with one side of her hand (or finger), which makes the ball cut in that direction. This can be done with 4 seams, just as easy as 2 seams.

I've heard a pitching coach once say that a 2 seam riseball will move just as much as a 4 seam and I almost threw up in my mouth. This argument is made for the drop also and it's equally as crazy.

Keep in mind, with the way hitters are taught today, mediocre pitchers can get away with things and it makes them look like champions. However, when facing top of the line hitters, they are trying to do 1 of 2 things: Read the pitcher to know the pitch before its thrown. Or if they can't do that, they read the rotation of the pitch to know how it's going to move. In a perfect world, you want your rise to spin as close to backward as you can get. and Your drop to spin forward with 4 seams so out of the pitcher's hand the hitter will have a hard time detecting which direction the ball is spinning. Throwing with 2 seams provides a "looser" rotation and is easier to see for the hitters.

But still, the 2 seam side to side movement is strictly finger pressure. If she works on it consciencely, she will get it and control it and do it at will.

Bill
I pitch over 500 games with the two seam rise ball .winning over 300 of them,
winning many tournament and I consider myselt a successful pitcher .
since I desided to come out of retirement to pitch , I have been practicing
the 4 seam rise ball . I have throwed over 2000 4 seam rise ball.
once again Bill is right , about the 4 seam rise and drop ball . So far I haven't been able to make the drop move left or right yet , but I can make it drop.
the 4 seam riseball move rise better than my two seam rise which Iwill putting into retirement lol.
 
Jan 24, 2009
618
0
Nice post Bill, and thanks for explaining this. DD is only 10yo so learning as we go. At 10u, I love the 2 seam FB because the lateral movement--whichever direction it happens to move--keeps the ball off of the sweet spot if it gets hit at all. It will be fun to try to dial in the finger pressure you mention and dictate whether it breaks left or right.
VW
 

Latest posts

Members online

Latest threads

Forum statistics

Threads
33,689
Messages
488,099
Members
15,334
Latest member
TRP llc
Top