Look back rule with a twist

very aggressive team that will use anything in their power to get extra bases and bend the rules esp involving look back rule as most USA umps in our area do not know or enforce this rule. Shallow base hit to left relay into second and back to pitcher. Runner rounds first and freezes staring at my pitcher. My pitcher makes zero movement and stares her down and the two are just frozen. That's where in the way i read the rules the runner must choose and not hesitate. Well this is this long awkward pause and my first baseman runs behind the runner clapping her glove and the runner bounces back and forth because of this. Pitcher still has not moved. Runner takes off to second and my pitcher waits to about halfway and fires to second like instructed. throw was off and now shes standing on third. I argue to no avail that the look back rule was not enforced multiple times. even showing them their own rule in the book. They told me it was a judgement call and i returned to my bucket knowing how arguing that would go.

question is aside from them not know the rules, can my first base do that to entice a runner to bounce? or should the rule be enforced before that is even necessary.

Based on your description, it sounds like it was clearly a look-back rule violation.

That said, bringing a rule book out on the field to instruct the umpire isn't usually going to get you your way.

Eric F said:

Based on your description, it sounds like it was clearly a look-back rule violation.

That said, bringing a rule book out on the field to instruct the umpire isn't usually going to get you your way.

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Oh I am aware that arguing of any kind never ends well period. Especially showing them their own rule, in this instance the homeplate ump stated he had never heard of a look back rule. this was 12UB...

SESwildfire said:

Oh I am aware that arguing of any kind never ends well period. Especially showing them their own rule, in this instance the homeplate ump stated he had never heard of a look back rule. this was 12UB...

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Oh, boy. It might be a good idea to have a conversation with whoever is in charge of getting umps. They should be made aware of an issue like this.

We had an umpire 2 weeks ago say that the look back rule didn't go into effect until pitcher was on the rubber. This is travel not rec. That was a first.

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SESwildfire said:

Well this is this long awkward pause and my first baseman runs behind the runner clapping her glove and the runner bounces back and forth because of this.

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Runner has to retreat or advance within a couple of beats (one one thousand two)when pitcher is in the circle with the ball. She cannot bounce back and forth either. Pretty simple rule.

Umpire In Charge need to be notified.

Coachkat said:

We had an umpire 2 weeks ago say that the look back rule didn't go into effect until pitcher was on the rubber. This is travel not rec. That was a first.

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You go to all that trouble to draw a decent circle. And the ump doesn’t even
Use it

chinamigarden said:

You go to all that trouble to draw a decent circle. And the ump doesn’t even
Use it

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Speaking of which - we played a team last summer with a pitcher who would walk all the way to the back of the circle and step one foot out almost every time the catcher threw her the ball. We instructed our runners to go if they saw her do this. Of course the umpires did not notice that she was stepping out and called our first runner out for leaving early... The circle is there for a reason!!!

2br02b said:

Speaking of which - we played a team last summer with a pitcher who would walk all the way to the back of the circle and step one foot out almost every time the catcher threw her the ball. We instructed our runners to go if they saw her do this. Of course the umpires did not notice that she was stepping out and called our first runner out for leaving early... The circle is there for a reason!!!

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I wasn't there so I don't know. Both feet must be in the circle for the Look Back rule to be in effect (Rule 2-45). But if a foot is partially in it is considered in; does not have to be completely in.

WVSteven said:

I wasn't there so I don't know. Both feet must be in the circle for the Look Back rule to be in effect (Rule 2-45). But if a foot is partially in it is considered in; does not have to be completely in.

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It wasn't that her foot was partially in the circle - it was all the way out - the umpires weren't paying attention. When they called our runner out, we explained to the field umpire what was going on, and she nodded and called out the other coach and told him she was stepping out of the circle and allowed him to go talk to his pitcher.

So to sum up:

1. Coach doesn't notice his own pitcher stepping out.
2. Umpire doesn't notice either.
3. Our runner gets called out because of #2.
4. Opp. Coach gets a lesson with no consequence and a "more you know" moment.
5. This was a provincial championship tournament.