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Thread: Bases Loaded Walk- 3rd out recorded prior to the runner crossing the plate

  1. #1
    I can talk softball all day Big Daddy Michigan's Avatar
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    Default Bases Loaded Walk- 3rd out recorded prior to the runner crossing the plate

    I saw this being argued on a different forum-

    Final inning
    2 outs & the bases loaded
    Batter walks
    The runner from first safely touches second then rounds and is tagged out prior to the runner from third touching home.

    The question was does the run count.

    I'm pretty sure it does because the runner is entitled to home without being put out. Some argued this was a timing play and the run can't score because the game is over.

    I was hoping someone could cite a rule or case play where this is covered.

    Also assuming the run counts, as an umpire what do you do to make sure everyone is aware of the run counting?


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    I can talk softball all day Crabby_Bob's Avatar
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    The answer depends on the ruleset.

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    Always learning... Eric F's Avatar
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    If the 3rd out of the inning is a force out, the run does not score, no matter when it crosses the plate. This is not a force out, but the runner was being forced home. Hmmm...I'm not sure.
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    Always learning... Eric F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob View Post
    The answer depends on the ruleset.
    Can you give us at least one answer? Assume USA rules.
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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball Comp's Avatar
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    I am out of town and do not have rule books with me so cannot give you rule citations for any of the rule sets, but USA has always ruled that if the 3rd out occurred prior to the lead runner touching home plate, the run does not score. It actually is not stated in any of the rules it is in either the rule supplements or a case play.

    Up until this year, NFHS said the run did score. However, as of this year they have changed their ruling and the run would no longer score same as USA. I have seen speculated by some that this change was the result of basically this same play happening in a Georgia baseball game a few years back where a runner had rounded third and got tagged out before the lead runner had touched home plate but the umpires correctly ruled as of that time that the run did score and it was the winning run of the game, and it just happened to be as I recall the semi final game going into the state championship. The losing team protested the call and the athletic association regardless of what the rule and case play stated ruled the run should not have scored, berated the officials, removed them from any further game assignments and had the game replayed from that point.

    The old ruling in NFHS used to state that all runners were awarded the next base on a walk and that is why the run would score regardless of what occurred behind the lead runner. The new ruling states that only the batter is awarded a base, any other runners only advance if forced and are only entitled to advance 1 base without liability to be put out. That is no assurance that the run would score, the ball is still live on a walk and the same rules apply as in any other live ball situation. If the 3rd out occurs prior to the lead runner touching home plate the run would not score. As with USA, the rule is not actually in the rule book it is in the case plays.

    USSSA I am not positive about but I believe somewhere their rules state that situations not specifically covered in their rules revert to NFHS, so I would assume they now rule the same as high school.

    NCAA still considers all runners to be awarded the next base and the run would score.

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    I can talk softball all day Big Daddy Michigan's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone.

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    Softball Junkie bmakj's Avatar
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    have them hustle to HP and not an issue

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    Ex "Expert" Cannonball's Avatar
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    I saw this happen in college and the run did score. Bases loaded. Hitter walked. Catcher was unsure on whether it was a strike or not and threw to 1st. Runner on 3rd who should have been running at release was, instead way in foul territory and walking home. Batter/runner after touching 1st, for whatever reason broke for 2nd when the 1B caught the ball and was tagged.
    My opinions here are simply that, My Opinions. I'm an ex expert. I no longer care to have to be right.

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    Checking out the clubhouse WVSteven's Avatar
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    In NFHS, Case book for 2019 page 71, situation 9.1.1, with bases loaded and 2 outs if the runner overruns a base and is tagged out before the runner crosses home plate the run does NOT score. Their specific scenario took place at 2nd base but would be the same for each base. The runner it entitled to the preceding base but the inning ends when out 3 is recorded. If out 3 is recorded before the run scores then the run does not score.

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    Checking out the clubhouse Umpire171's Avatar
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    I believe this has come up before, they are not entitlement to be put out when they are required the next base on a walk so the run should count. so they are protected in that sense.


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