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Thread: Untouched pop-up ruling

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    Certified softball maniac T.J.'s Avatar
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    Default Untouched pop-up ruling

    Regardless of scenario:

    High pop-up behind shortstop. SS, circles and circles and the ball falls just behind teh fielder at the edge of the outfield grass...untouched.

    Pop-up in the infield....three players converge, they all stop and ball drops...untouched.

    High fly ball to right field. RF, backs, tracks, circles, settles....ball drops 2 feet from her... untouched.

    These are all easy plays where the fielder was settling under the ball then made a judgement error (or some type tracking miscalculation) and the ball lands right next to her completely untouched.

    Someone told me they are hits because the fielder never touched the ball.

    True?
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    Certified softball maniac corlay's Avatar
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    true. my understanding is there are no "errors of judgement".

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    The one that drops between 3 fielder has to be a hit. There is no team error.

    There is no rule that it has to touch a glove to be an error so it's up to the scorer on the other 2 to determine if normal effort would have made the play.

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    Interesting interpretations. (Not picking a disagreement, just trying to learn to be more accurate)
    I have read/been told, that the standard is: would an average player with normal effort, at the level being played, have made the putout? So in this case, an 8u player misjudging those popups is going to be scored differently than a 16u player. Have I been doing this wrong?
    The no error of judgments I always interpreted to be something like a SS goes to first rather than 2B for a FC 6-3 but those watching all know she could have gotten the lead runner, thus a mental mistake but no error.

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    Mental mistakes are not errors. But an easy pop up coming to SS/3B/CF (any fielder) that takes minimal effort to catch, even if she doesn't touch it, is an error. And this is where parents get upset with score keepers. "But Susie never touched it!" Um, so what? All she had to do was take one step to her right and have her glove open to catch it. I am over simplifying of course, but it does NOT have to be touched to be an error. I rarely give an error for losing a high fly ball in the lights, especially if an effort was made to get to the ball (there are exceptions of course). And no error if everyone converges and no one makes it to the ball (i.e. a ball falling in no man's land).
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    TMD
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamommax3 View Post
    Mental mistakes are not errors. But an easy pop up coming to SS/3B/CF (any fielder) that takes minimal effort to catch, even if she doesn't touch it, is an error. And this is where parents get upset with score keepers. "But Susie never touched it!" Um, so what? All she had to do was take one step to her right and have her glove open to catch it. I am over simplifying of course, but it does NOT have to be touched to be an error. I rarely give an error for losing a high fly ball in the lights, especially if an effort was made to get to the ball (there are exceptions of course). And no error if everyone converges and no one makes it to the ball (i.e. a ball falling in no man's land).
    Should change that to "never give an error for losing a high fly ball in the lights", since that exact scenario - "When a ball is misplayed because it is lost in the sun or lights, blown by the wind, or the fielder slips and falls—even if contact is made with the ball." - is called out as something for which no error is charged.

    Some of the other scenarios are also not necessarily cut and dry. While I agree that a 16U experienced TB player should position herself to catch a routine popup, there is another "no error charged" situation specific to misjudging a fly ball and not being able to recover in time.

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    Allergic to BS Strike2's Avatar
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    Those really high IF pop-ups in the wind can be anything but routine. Totally agree with sun and lights not causing an "error", but if you saw the Big 12 Championship game between OU and Baylor, a big insurance run came on an OU fly ball single to RF where the Baylor fielder lost it in the sun. While not chargeable as an error, that fielder wasn't wearing sunglasses. Drives me nuts when a player loses a ball in the sun because they won't wear decent shades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TMD View Post
    Should change that to "never give an error for losing a high fly ball in the lights", since that exact scenario - "When a ball is misplayed because it is lost in the sun or lights, blown by the wind, or the fielder slips and falls—even if contact is made with the ball." - is called out as something for which no error is charged.

    Some of the other scenarios are also not necessarily cut and dry. While I agree that a 16U experienced TB player should position herself to catch a routine popup, there is another "no error charged" situation specific to misjudging a fly ball and not being able to recover in time.
    I should have asked the age and level. I am scoring a 14u A level travel ball team. We expect they can make the routine plays 99% of the time, or they are charged with an error. I should have said I don't give an error for losing the ball in the lights or sun, as that is correct. And errors should not be given in the instance of extraordinary effort that doesn't result in an out.
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    They don't sound like errors based on your description, but the one where a fielder circles it repeatedly and doesn't catch it could be. You can score an error on an untouched ball, but not typically on a fly ball (ball goes through fielder's legs is an error, but the misjudging of fly balls isn't.) If a fielder takes her eyes off of a ball and that causes her to miss it, a lot of people would (and arguably should) call it an error.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.J. View Post
    Regardless of scenario:

    High pop-up behind shortstop. SS, circles and circles and the ball falls just behind teh fielder at the edge of the outfield grass...untouched.

    Pop-up in the infield....three players converge, they all stop and ball drops...untouched.

    High fly ball to right field. RF, backs, tracks, circles, settles....ball drops 2 feet from her... untouched.

    These are all easy plays where the fielder was settling under the ball then made a judgement error (or some type tracking miscalculation) and the ball lands right next to her completely untouched.

    Someone told me they are hits because the fielder never touched the ball.

    True?
    I would rule a base hit, as it was not a physical error. We had a pop up to first this weekend that wasn't touched, rolled to fence by first base. Speedy runner made it third - infield triple; didn't know how else to rule (team we were playing was really bad 12U team....).

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