Scoring question - bunt with runner at third

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Jul 13, 2014
89
8
Nashville, TN
As title says, runner at third, batter lays down bunt. It is not a suicide squeeze. Fielder looks back runner at third, throws to first and gets out. On the throw, runner from third scored. Should batter be credited with sacrifice and rbi? My thought is no sacrifice and rbi, because runner advanced on throw and not as a result of ball being hit. Thoughts?
 
Jun 29, 2013
589
18
We had a similar play but runner on third didn't advance and batter-runner was safe at first without throw. I scored that one a fielders choice. Here, I would score it as a putout and RBI. I like your interpretation, Como, but are you srue you credit the sacrifice if the batter where the batter wasn't trying to advance a runner to second or third?
 
Jul 13, 2014
89
8
Nashville, TN
Thanks for the input. I don't think it can be scored as a putout and RBI; if batter was thrown out on a bunt, for it to be an RBI would mean by definition they advanced the runner; i.e. sacrifice bunt. If it is an RBI, then it has to be a sacrifice.

To be a sacrifice, a runner must be advanced. Since the fielder looked the runner at third back, they stopped the runner advancing on the bunt; i.e. no sacrifice. Runner advanced on secondary action; i.e. the throw. Bunting with runner on third is a "squeeze play"; either a safety squeeze (runner waits to ensure ball is successfully bunted to a place where they can score, or a suicide squeeze, where the runner is coming "do or die". In either case, the placement of the bunt permits them to advance and score. When the fielder checks the runner, shouldn't this negate the sacrifice? No different than a batter who singles advancing on a throw to the plate (not a double)?
 
Jun 29, 2013
589
18
My hang-up on whether it is a Sac. is simply this isn't a situation where a team typically would sacrifice. To bunt a runner in from third, you're really looking for a drag bunt or one so artfully put down that there isn't a play to be made (bunting for a base hit). If the hitter squares up to bunt, lays down a good bunt but one that is fielded and the fielder then chooses not to throw the ball or tries to throw only after looking a runner back, I'm interpreting it as a fielders choice if the runner then breaks for home after the fake. I'm stretching a little to reward the hitter with an RBI as I want to reward the hitter for her efforts, but am struggling to call if a sacrifice because the runner isn't breaking as you would in a safety squeeze situation.
 

Strike2

Allergic to BS
Nov 14, 2014
2,044
113
Keep it simple...The batter laid the bunt down at the direction of the coach, and shouldn't be penalized because something good happened.

Batter lays down a bunt with a runner on 3B. If the runner scores as a result of the bunt (or subsequent throw to 1B), but the batter is out, score it a SAC / RBI.

If the batter reaches 1B for any reason short of an OBVIOUS fielding error, or another runner being put out, score it as a base hit. An "error" is a failure to make a routine play, not a failure to make a difficult one. These kinds of plays can easily turn very difficult, and non-throws happen on bunts and slap-hits all the time, even at the highest levels of college ball. The fielder can't get to the ball quickly, it takes a high hop, the runner is fast, and the infielder decides to hold the ball. That's an infield single.

Scoring a "fielder's choice" when nobody was put out and the batter reached First safely because of a non-throw is not only wrong, but unfair. It never ceases to amaze how some can tie themselves up in knots trying to NOT credit a player for getting the ball into play and making something happen.
 
Jun 29, 2013
589
18
Keep it simple...The batter laid the bunt down at the direction of the coach, and shouldn't be penalized because something good happened.

Batter lays down a bunt with a runner on 3B. If the runner scores as a result of the bunt (or subsequent throw to 1B), but the batter is out, score it a SAC / RBI.

If the batter reaches 1B for any reason short of an OBVIOUS fielding error, or another runner being put out, score it as a base hit. An "error" is a failure to make a routine play, not a failure to make a difficult one. These kinds of plays can easily turn very difficult, and non-throws happen on bunts and slap-hits all the time, even at the highest levels of college ball. The fielder can't get to the ball quickly, it takes a high hop, the runner is fast, and the infielder decides to hold the ball. That's an infield single.

Scoring a "fielder's choice" when nobody was put out and the batter reached First safely because of a non-throw is not only wrong, but unfair. It never ceases to amaze how some can tie themselves up in knots trying to NOT credit a player for getting the ball into play and making something happen.
Hit or Fielder's choice?
Unfortunately that is the definition of a fielder's choice, though.
 
Jul 13, 2014
89
8
Nashville, TN
Keep it simple...The batter laid the bunt down at the direction of the coach, and shouldn't be penalized because something good happened.

Batter lays down a bunt with a runner on 3B. If the runner scores as a result of the bunt (or subsequent throw to 1B), but the batter is out, score it a SAC / RBI.

If the batter reaches 1B for any reason short of an OBVIOUS fielding error, or another runner being put out, score it as a base hit. An "error" is a failure to make a routine play, not a failure to make a difficult one. These kinds of plays can easily turn very difficult, and non-throws happen on bunts and slap-hits all the time, even at the highest levels of college ball. The fielder can't get to the ball quickly, it takes a high hop, the runner is fast, and the infielder decides to hold the ball. That's an infield single.

Scoring a "fielder's choice" when nobody was put out and the batter reached First safely because of a non-throw is not only wrong, but unfair. It never ceases to amaze how some can tie themselves up in knots trying to NOT credit a player for getting the ball into play and making something happen.

So...if the batter walks with a runner on third, and the coach told the runner to continue to second to get a throw to allow the runner on third to score ("sacrifice") you would argue they should not be marked as having been caught stealing, because the coach asked them to get out to allow the run to score and they should not have their stolen base percentage penalized?
 

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