Defensive Indifference

Elk Grove Hurricane · Apr 11, 2018

You've all seen the situation 1,000 times. Runners on first and third with less than two outs. Runner at 1st takes of for second after the first pitch and is safe, as there is no throw down.
I see lots of books scoring this as defensive indifference, but I still award an SB unless the game is out of hand and the defensive team could truly care less where the runners are (example, 15-1, bottom of third). If the outcome of the game is still in doubt, and the throw is not made because the defensive team is trying to prevent a run (example, 4-1 game in second inning), I award the SB.
Am I getting this right or wrong?

nixxy311 · Apr 11, 2018

I still scorel it DI.
Iif a runner steals 3 and they throw and the runner on 1 also steals, is that a DI? I’ve always struggled with knowing what is and what isn’t DI..

Sweet Lou · Apr 11, 2018

Elk Grove Hurricane said:
You've all seen the situation 1,000 times. Runners on first and third with less than two outs. Runner at 1st takes of for second after the first pitch and is safe, as there is no throw down.
I see lots of books scoring this as defensive indifference, but I still award an SB unless the game is out of hand and the defensive team could truly care less where the runners are (example, 15-1, bottom of third). If the outcome of the game is still in doubt, and the throw is not made because the defensive team is trying to prevent a run (example, 4-1 game in second inning), I award the SB.
Am I getting this right or wrong?

It's scorers discretion but I would award a SB in this situation.

nixxy311 said:
I still scorel it DI.
Iif a runner steals 3 and they throw and the runner on 1 also steals, is that a DI? I’ve always struggled with knowing what is and what isn’t DI..

I assume you are talking about runners on 1st and 2nd and both steal? If so both are credited with a SB if they both successfully advance.
If one is thrown out then neither is credited with a SB. The runner who is out is caught stealing CS, the runner who successfully advances does so on the throw.

Momo'sDad · Apr 11, 2018

Through 10u, SB. 12u and beyond, DI.

Note: For me, a throw is not a required element, but when you're doing the scoring, you make the call.

CoachJD · Apr 11, 2018

It's definitely not defensive indifference in a situation where the game isn't already decided (in which case the fact there's a runner on third is irrelevant).

They're not withholding a throw because they don't care about the runner advancing. They're not throwing because they are unable (or believe they're unable) to make a throw without the runner scoring. There's no indifference involved. They would like to throw that runner out. They just can't. That's a stolen base. This is no different than if you remove the runner on third entirely and the runner on first just gets a great jump and is super fast and the catcher chooses to not make a throw because making a throw could lead to a worse outcome than not making one.

These scoring questions are often frustrating because of how often people just arbitrarily decide to do things their own way. There is some (often time a lot) of subjectivity involved in scoring a game, but you don't get to just decide the definitions of terms.

Here's rule 10.07 (this is baseball, but it specifically addresses this issue, and I can't think of a good reason why the scoring should be different in softball in this case):

10.07 Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing

(g) The official scorer shall not score a stolen base when a runner advances solely because of the defensive team’s indifference to the runner’s advance. The official scorer shall score such a play as a fielder’s choice.

Rule 10.07(g) Comment: The scorer shall consider, in judging whether the defensive team has been indifferent to a runner’s advance, the totality of the circumstances, including the inning and score of the game, whether the defensive team had held the runner on base, whether the pitcher had made any pickoff attempts on that runner before the runner’s advance, whether the fielder ordinarily expected to cover the base to which the runner advanced made a move to cover such base, whether the defensive team had a legitimate strategic motive to not contest the runner’s advance or whether the defensive team might be trying impermissibly to deny the runner credit for a stolen base. For example, with runners on first and third bases, the official scorer should ordinarily credit a stolen base when the runner on first advances to second, if, in the scorer’s judgment, the defensive team had a legitimate strategic motive — namely, preventing the runner on third base from scoring on the throw to second base — not to contest the runner’s advance to second base.

Big Daddy Michigan · Apr 18, 2018

I saw a game in the cold and the team's only catcher injured her throwing arm. She didn't attempt throws to second on steals due to injury, but not due to indifference. I scored them stolen bases. It was a close game & luckily the pitcher was dominant.

Defensive Indifference

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Elk Grove Hurricane

nixxy311

Sweet Lou

Momo'sDad

CoachJD

Big Daddy Michigan

Similar threads

Latest posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Share this page

Online statistics

Forum statistics