Base path question for rundown 1b to 2b

I can’t find the rule I hope I’m not wrong. I always understood the base path between 1b and 2b was determined by the runner. We were coaching a rundown where ball thrown to 2b just before br arrived so br turns to go back to 1b in rundown. My question is does the br have to go straight back to 1b or how much can they follow their original path. How wide is the base path at that point. We are usually playing 12u USSSA.

Laphoneman said:

I can’t find the rule I hope I’m not wrong. I always understood the base path between 1b and 2b was determined by the runner. We were coaching a rundown where ball thrown to 2b just before br arrived so br turns to go back to 1b in rundown. My question is does the br have to go straight back to 1b or how much can they follow their original path. How wide is the base path at that point. We are usually playing 12u USSSA.

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Speaking USA/NFHS. The base path is determined by the R when heading toward a base. The R is restricted to a path (3' each side) that is a straight line from the R position to the base when the defense is attempting to make a tag on that runner.

Under most circumstances, the runner must take the most direct path to the next base. The only exception that comes to mind is when avoiding a fielder attempting an initial play on a batted ball. While an overrun of 1B may cause a slight delay of the start of that "base path" to 2B, the runner must still run directly to 2B after rounding. If returning to a previous base on a rundown, again, the most direct path after turning around would be required. USSSA rules define that "base path" as three feet on either side.

Strike2 said:

Under most circumstances, the runner must take the most direct path to the next base. The only exception that comes to mind is when avoiding a fielder attempting an initial play on a batted ball. While an overrun of 1B may cause a slight delay of the start of that "base path" to 2B, the runner must still run directly to 2B after rounding. If returning to a previous base on a rundown, again, the most direct path after turning around would be required. USSSA rules define that "base path" as three feet on either side.

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That is not correct. As MTR has said, the runner can choose any path they like between bases, nothing in the rules say they must take the most direct route. A runner could round first, run all the way to the outfield fence and then back to 2nd base as long as there was no play being attempted on them. The USSSA rule says the base path is a direct line from the runners position to the base at the time a defense attempts to make a play on them. Nothing says that position at the time the play is made must be in the most direct route between bases. During a run down, each time the runner reverses course they establish a new base path.

I’m not trying be tricky not going to coach take path to outfield fence. I understand they can’t go perpendicular to their path more than 3 ft. My question a little more specific might be half way between 1b and 2b If br is 8-10 ft from straight line between bases and running back to 1st base she should not be called out of the base line if her original base path put her in that position.

Comp said:

That is not correct. As MTR has said, the runner can choose any path they like between bases, nothing in the rules say they must take the most direct route. A runner could round first, run all the way to the outfield fence and then back to 2nd base as long as there was no play being attempted on them. The USSSA rule says the base path is a direct line from the runners position to the base at the time a defense attempts to make a play on them. Nothing says that position at the time the play is made must be in the most direct route between bases. During a run down, each time the runner reverses course they establish a new base path.

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I think you're being at bit pedantic on this one. Yes...they can run into the OF if they want before a play is being made on them, but we don't usually see that beyond T-ball, and that's not what we're talking about here. The question involves a play at 2B, a run-back to 1B, and whether the runner can retrace their steps back to 1B.

USSSA Rules defines the base path as "a direct line between a base and the runner’s position at the time a defensive player is attempting (or about to attempt) to tag a runner."

Once the runner encounters a defensive player with the ball, a play is being made, and once the runner turns, the runner can't deviate more than +/- three feet on a direct line from their current position back to 1B. So, assuming she rounded 1B wide in some form or fashion, she wouldn't be able to retrace those steps.

Laphoneman said:

I’m not trying be tricky not going to coach take path to outfield fence. I understand they can’t go perpendicular to their path more than 3 ft. My question a little more specific might be half way between 1b and 2b If br is 8-10 ft from straight line between bases and running back to 1st base she should not be called out of the base line if her original base path put her in that position.

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I thnk you're missing Comp and MTR's point. The establishment of the runner's path is determined at the moment the defense attempts to make a play on the runner. Before that that time, the runner can run anywhere they want. A straight line between 1B and 2B - and the runner's relationship to it - is completely irrelevant.

Once the runner encounters a defensive player with the ball, a play is being made, and once the runner turns, the runner can't deviate more than +/- three feet on a direct line from their current position back to 1B. So, assuming she rounded 1B wide in some form or fashion, she wouldn't be able to retrace those steps.

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And that is where you are wrong, the tag attempt is being made on the runner heading toward 2nd base, once they turn and head back toward 1st they are no longer bound to a direct line from their position and 1st base. As I stated, each and every time that runner turns and heads the other direction a new basepath is established.

Yes....Comp's example is absurd, but it is absurd to attempt to prove a point.

As pointed out, the base path is defined in the rules, BUT THERE IS NO RULE that says a runner must follow that base path if no defensive player is attempting to tag her. The only rule that limits where a base runner can go is when a defensive player is attempting to make a tag on the runner. In THAT SPECIFIC INSTANCE ONLY, the runner can vary no more than three feet in either direction from the established base path, per the definition already posted.

To address the OP: Runner advancing to second base, ball gets to second base, runner stops and turns to go back to first. Runner can take ANY ROUTE she wants to back to first base. She does not have to retrace her steps, or stay within a certain distance of the direct line between first and second, or any other restriction up until the point that a defensive player is attempting to tag her.

Laphoneman said:

We were coaching a rundown where ball thrown to 2b just before br arrived so br turns to go back to 1b in rundown.

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So, with all of the above in mind, the answer to the following question will probably determine how much latitude the runner has: was the fielder with the ball still standing at 2B, or was she chasing after the runner?