Appeal on runner leaving early

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Feb 13, 2015
164
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Yes, I know. I'm just saying that the concept is the same - if the fielder tags the base before the runner gets there then the runner is out. Obviously it's not exactly the same - in one the runner is advancing to a base and in the other she is returning to the base - but it's the same idea.
On a force third out, no runs may score, even if runner crosses plate before out is made. Because a tag up play is not a force out, any runs crossing the plate before the appeal will count. This is the most important reason for understanding that this is not a force play and why MTR made his post.

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Sep 5, 2012
53
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So then why isn't it always a live ball appeal if the ball is still live?

It can be a live ball appeal. No one here is saying that it can't.

First, let's look at the word, "appeal". The word indicates some sort of verbal action.

Now, let's look at the situation you describe (Bases loaded, no outs). The second baseman makes a diving catch & throws to 3B. Is it to appeal the runner on 3B for leaving early? Is it to prevent the runner on 2B from advancing. Unless the defense verbally states their intentions, how is an umpire to know? In this situation, the umpire's mechanics were spot on! There were multiple reasons for a throw to be made to 3B. It's not the umpire's job to assume the defense's intentions. They have to make them known!

In situations where it's obvious what the defense is doing (solo runner, appeal of a runner leaving 1B early) & there's only one reason for their actions, an umpire can rule without the verbal.
 
Aug 12, 2014
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Is it to appeal the runner on 3B for leaving early? Is it to prevent the runner on 2B from advancing. Unless the defense verbally states their intentions, how is an umpire to know?

Why does the intention matter? The ball is live, and the defense completed the mechanics of the out. I don't see why you need to announce your intention any more than you should need to announce your intention on a force play or any other non-appeal play. I understand that the rule says you must state your intention, and I think that's a stupid rule.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
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Why does the intention matter? The ball is live, and the defense completed the mechanics of the out. I don't see why you need to announce your intention any more than you should need to announce your intention on a force play or any other non-appeal play. I understand that the rule says you must state your intention, and I think that's a stupid rule.

How many times does it have to be answered? Because its the rules, thats why. You cannot have an accidental appeal, an appeal play must be made known to the umpire. It has also been stated several why the officials accept a throw as a live ball appeal without a verbal request when everyone in the park knows exactly why the ball is being thrown. Who knows what was happening in the game and why the official didnt accept the throw as a live ball appeal. None of us were there and saw the play. As was just posted there could be any number of reasons why it was not accepted as a live ball appeal. It may be because it was not readily apparent to the official why the throw was made, or it could be as simple as the umpire screwed up. No one but that particular official knows.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
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USA rule 1, Appeal Play: A play on a rule violation on which an umpire may not make a decision until requested by a manager, coach or player.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
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Why does the intention matter? The ball is live, and the defense completed the mechanics of the out. I don't see why you need to announce your intention any more than you should need to announce your intention on a force play or any other non-appeal play. I understand that the rule says you must state your intention, and I think that's a stupid rule.

National Championship game. Your team has the bases juiced with 2 outs in the 7th inning and down by a run. B6 hits a bases-clearing triple, but R5 missed 2B. F8 retrieves the ball and throws it into SS. The shortstop turns and takes a couple steps to return the ball the umpire, but accidentally contacts 2B prior to releasing the ball.

I'm sure you and your team would be elated when the umpire rules R5 out which negates all the runs. No problem with that, right?

There is something stupid, but it isn't the rule
 

2br02b

Trabant swing
Jul 25, 2017
303
43
National Championship game. Your team has the bases juiced with 2 outs in the 7th inning and down by a run. B6 hits a bases-clearing triple, but R5 missed 2B. F8 retrieves the ball and throws it into SS. The shortstop turns and takes a couple steps to return the ball the umpire, but accidentally contacts 2B prior to releasing the ball.

I'm sure you and your team would be elated when the umpire rules R5 out which negates all the runs. No problem with that, right?

There is something stupid, but it isn't the rule

Any idea on the history of this type of appeal play? i.e. How did we get to this point? Just to be clearer - was there ever a point where the umpire would have just ruled that R5 missed second and was therefore out without it being "appealed"?

Should I have my team throw the ball around the bases after each play just to be "safe"? lol
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
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Any idea on the history of this type of appeal play? i.e. How did we get to this point? Just to be clearer - was there ever a point where the umpire would have just ruled that R5 missed second and was therefore out without it being "appealed"?

Should I have my team throw the ball around the bases after each play just to be "safe"? lol

My response was directed to post #23 which was cited in my post. An umpire should NEVER rule on a missed base or a base left too soon without a proper appeal by the offended team
 

2br02b

Trabant swing
Jul 25, 2017
303
43
My response was directed to post #23 which was cited in my post. An umpire should NEVER rule on a missed base or a base left too soon without a proper appeal by the offended team

Yes - I got that- I was using your example to ask 'how did "appeal plays", such as a runner missing a base, become "appeal plays"'? I can Google all day about which plays are appeal plays and what the rules are, but I am interested in the rationale and history.
 

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