not returning ball directly to pitcher?

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May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
quick question: is there a penalty if the catcher does not return ball directly to pitcher during an at-bat and instead throws the ball to an un-occupied base? (no baserunners)
ASA Ruleset.

Thanks!
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
The rule only applies when there are no runners on base. If there are no runners and the catcher does not return the ball directly to the pitcher it is a ball on the batter.
 
May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
thanks Comp!

no baserunners, 3-1 count,
batter takes a called strike,
and catcher throws down to 1B,
presumably, mistakenly thinking the batter was out on 3 strikes.

our coach called time to remind the umpire of the rule.
HP ump then conferenced with field ump and decided to issue a "warning",
and batter's count is now 3-2.
Batter struck out swining on next pitch.

This is at ASA Eastern Nationals 16U A Division.

Last question: if we did not win the game, is that mis-application of the rule grounds for protest?
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
Umpires making crap up your coach should have protested on the spot. You must immediately lodge the protest and have it ruled on right then. You cannot continue play and then lodge a protest after the game.

By the way it is USA nationals now, and being that it is nationals there would be a UIC or at least should be a UIC on site to make an immediate ruling upon a protest.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
thanks Comp!

no baserunners, 3-1 count,
batter takes a called strike,
and catcher throws down to 1B,
presumably, mistakenly thinking the batter was out on 3 strikes.

our coach called time to remind the umpire of the rule.
HP ump then conferenced with field ump and decided to issue a "warning",
and batter's count is now 3-2.
Batter struck out swining on next pitch.


It may be ruled a ball It SHOULD be nothing if you presumed correctly. There is no allowance for a "warning".

This is a game management rule and should be applied only when necessary. IOW, if determined this was a one-time error on the catcher's part, do nothing. If it is repeated, then award a ball to the batter.
This is at ASA Eastern Nationals 16U A Division.

Last question: if we did not win the game, is that mis-application of the rule grounds for protest?

It shouldn't be, but I guess it would have to be honored if properly filed (which would have to be prior to the next pitch or play). There have been some ridiculous demands for the application of this rule. As an example, if a catcher had to track down a passed ball/wild pitch. After retrieving the ball, another defender other then the pitcher is nearby and the catcher flips the ball to that player to be returned to the pitcher so she can do whatever (stand up if she fell, pick-up her mask, etc.). The coach comes out an argues that a ball should be awarded to the batter.

The purpose of the rule is to not delay the game. In this case, the catcher probably helped move the game along and the umpire refused to add a ball to the batter's count. Personally, I believe the wording of the rule should be changed to give the umpire that discretion.
 
May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
MTR - ASA/USA rules are very black-and-white.
How does an umpire working within this ruleset,
make a judgement call whether a rule SHOULD or SHOULD
NOT be enforced?

ours is clearly not a situation where a team is "gaming the system".
and the play was in clear violation of the rules - no umpire judgement required.
 

Strike2

Allergic to BS
Nov 14, 2014
2,044
113
MTR - ASA/USA rules are very black-and-white.
How does an umpire working within this ruleset,
make a judgement call whether a rule SHOULD or SHOULD
NOT be enforced?

ours is clearly not a situation where a team is "gaming the system".
and the play was in clear violation of the rules - no umpire judgement required.

I could write a couple of volumes about how "should" and "shall" became "don't want to" and "didn't".
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
MTR - ASA/USA rules are very black-and-white.
How does an umpire working within this ruleset,
make a judgement call whether a rule SHOULD or SHOULD
NOT be enforced?

ours is clearly not a situation where a team is "gaming the system".
and the play was in clear violation of the rules - no umpire judgement required.

As I stated and apparently you didn't want to hear, the rule is black white but shouldn't be. Under the black and white, if the catcher overthrows the pitcher on a return throw unless the pitcher runs out to center field to retrieve the ball.

Of course, you are thinking, "that's crazy". And I would agree, but no more crazy than the other scenarios presented. As I also noted, the purpose of the rule is to avoid unnecessary delay in the game.

I am also confident that if the shoe were on the other foot and the umpire awarded a ball and said, "coach, it is black and white n the book", the coach would be less than congenial.
 
Jul 3, 2013
438
43
This happened to DD tonight. 3-1 count, swing and miss, she threw down to 3rd thinking it was strike 3. A lot of people learned a rule they had never heard before.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 

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