Failed to touch HP

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May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
Odd play this past weekend.

There was a play at the plate, and runner was called safe.
Our coach (defense) thought she observed that the Runner failed to touch HP on the slide/play.
So she (incorrectly) prompted our pitcher, who had the ball, to walk up and touch home plate.
The HP Umpire asked "what are you implying?" and our coach replied "I'm appealing that the runner did not touch home plate."
The HP umpire then immediately called the Runner out, and the inning ended (that was out #3).
Of course, the opposing bench when a little ballistic, but after a short conference between coaches HP and field ump, the reversed play stood.

My question: What is the duty of the HP umpire on a play at the plate? Is he/she required to verify HP is touched by the Runner?
I sure thought so, but given the events described above, I'm not so sure.

I see only two explanations here.

either,
a) the ump isn't required to verify a touch of HP?
or
b) the immediate reversal was the ump, in a roundabout way, correcting a bad call on his part?
 
Jun 20, 2012
438
18
SoCal
Odd play this past weekend.
There was a play at the plate, and runner was called safe.

This is too vague. Was it a force play or a tag play? If it was a force play, did she cross the plate well before the ball reached the fielder? If it was a tag play, was the runner ever tagged?
 
Aug 29, 2011
2,581
83
NorCal
I think the ump is supposed to make a safe sign when the runner touches home plate and it is absolutely their duty to verify a runner as touched HP or not.

If he does not make the safe sign I believe the call can be appealed. Though I'm not 100% sure how that appeal is made.

I'm sure one of our resident umps will chime in on the correct ruling and procedure.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
Odd play this past weekend.

There was a play at the plate, and runner was called safe.
Our coach (defense) thought she observed that the Runner failed to touch HP on the slide/play.
So she (incorrectly) prompted our pitcher, who had the ball, to walk up and touch home plate.
The HP Umpire asked "what are you implying?" and our coach replied "I'm appealing that the runner did not touch home plate."
The HP umpire then immediately called the Runner out, and the inning ended (that was out #3).
Of course, the opposing bench when a little ballistic, but after a short conference between coaches HP and field ump, the reversed play stood.

My question: What is the duty of the HP umpire on a play at the plate? Is he/she required to verify HP is touched by the Runner?
I sure thought so, but given the events described above, I'm not so sure.

I see only two explanations here.

either,
a) the ump isn't required to verify a touch of HP?
or
b) the immediate reversal was the ump, in a roundabout way, correcting a bad call on his part?

Or c) the umpire did their job correctly. You didnt include that option.

I am assuming there was a tag play at the plate in which the catcher most likely missed tagging the runner. The rules state once a runner has passed a base they are assumed to have touched it until properly appealed. It does not matter if it was a force play or a tag play, take a play at 1st base as an example. Runner step over the top of 1st base without touching it just as the ball arrives to F3, but runner clearly beat the throw to the base. The runner is to be called safe as the rules say she is assumed to have touched it. The umpire should make a safe call and wait to see if the defense properly appeals prior to the runner returning to touch the base.

In the OP I am assuming there was a tag play in which the runner was not actually tagged. If that is the case then the umpire did in fact make the correct call of safe as there was no tag and by rule the runner is assumed to have touched the plate. If the defense makes a proper appeal prior to the runner returning to touch the base then they would be ruled out. Making no call tips the defense to something is going on, so it is proper for the umpire to make the safe call.

What was incorrect about having the pitcher walk up and step on home plate? That is part of making an appeal, touch the base while in possession of the ball and tell the umpire what you are appealing, tag the runner with the ball and tell the umpire what you are appealing, or easiest yet just call time and any infielder tell the umpire what is being appealed. If this was a USA rule set the appeal must come from an infielder not the coach.
 
May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
thanks for the clarification Comp!

it was indeed a tag play.
catcher bobbled throw and "tagged" runner without possession of ball.
Runner never touched HP. and assuming she scored, simply returned to the dugout.
Then the appeal.

I understand now, why the Ump did his job. He can't alert anyone that the runner did not touch.
Therefore he just "assumes" the touch happened, and calls her "safe".
If he doesn't signal out or safe, that tips everyone off to the no touch.
Did I get that right?
 
Mar 26, 2013
1,934
0
I am assuming there was a tag play at the plate in which the catcher most likely missed tagging the runner. The rules state once a runner has passed a base they are assumed to have touched it until properly appealed. It does not matter if it was a force play or a tag play, take a play at 1st base as an example. Runner step over the top of 1st base without touching it just as the ball arrives to F3, but runner clearly beat the throw to the base. The runner is to be called safe as the rules say she is assumed to have touched it. The umpire should make a safe call and wait to see if the defense properly appeals prior to the runner returning to touch the base.

In the OP I am assuming there was a tag play in which the runner was not actually tagged. If that is the case then the umpire did in fact make the correct call of safe as there was no tag and by rule the runner is assumed to have touched the plate. If the defense makes a proper appeal prior to the runner returning to touch the base then they would be ruled out. Making no call tips the defense to something is going on, so it is proper for the umpire to make the safe call.
IIRC, the umpire is supposed to make the safe call after seeing the fielder isn't continuing to make a play on the runner.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
IIRC, the umpire is supposed to make the safe call after seeing the fielder isn't continuing to make a play on the runner.

A tag play was missed and regardless of it was home plate, 3rd base or in between 2 bases deserves a call. If the SS tries to tag a runner between 2nd and 3rd, misses and is chasing after the runner the umpire is not suppose to wait until after the SS has either tagged or gives up on chasing the runner. A play was made and needs to be called either safe or out. Yes, the umpire manual does suggest on missed tags at the plate the umpire should hesitate slightly before making a call, but that does not mean wait until all play has ceased or the catcher is no longer playing on the runner. Nothing in the umpire manual suggests waiting until fielder is no longer making a play. It means exactly what it says, hesitate slightly before making the call and that hesitation is completely the judgement of the umpire.
 
Jun 11, 2013
2,619
113
Comp,

What about a situation where an unforced runner avoids the tag (without going out of the baseline) and misses the plate and the catcher follows her and tags her while she is trying to get back to the plate. Is a tag sufficient even though she technically has passed the plate already?
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
Comp,

What about a situation where an unforced runner avoids the tag (without going out of the baseline) and misses the plate and the catcher follows her and tags her while she is trying to get back to the plate. Is a tag sufficient even though she technically has passed the plate already?

That would be an obvious case of a live ball appeal, just like a throw going back to a base on a caught fly ball and trying to get the runner headed back to the base. Everyone in the park knows what happened and why the tag is being attempted.
 

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