Not on Lineup Card

Ajaywill said:

If I'm reading this correctly, the lineup card listed nine players and no subs, correct?
If this is the case, you have an unreported substitution the first time #13 bats as I explained above.

Next question - After #13 batted in the five hole, who batted next? If it was the batter listed in the six hole, no problems.

If it was the batter listed in the 5 hole, now you have an illegal substitution, since that batter was removed from the game when #13 batted and is now re-entering the game in a different place in the batting order. That would have to be appealed, but the result would be that the illegal sub player is restricted to the bench for the remainder of the game and may be declared out, depending on what happened during the at-bat.

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Yes, 9 players, and no subs.

After #13 batted in the 5 hole, the player listed in the 5 hole on the card batted. #13 was not subbed in nor was she intended to be subbed in. She was a starter, and was intended to be a starter, he just forgot to put her on his lineup card turned in to the umpire.

They at no time made any substitutions. They batted a straight 10, with no DP/Flex. This is supposed to be against NFHS rules, and was clearly stated in the tournament rules as well.

TMoney said:

They batted a straight 10, with no DP/Flex.

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You can't do that so that lineup would not be accepted to begin with. What position is the "10th" player playing under?

GunnerShotgun said:

You can't do that so that lineup would not be accepted to begin with. What position is the "10th" player playing under?

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Only 9 players appeared on the lineup card, so it wasn't apparent when lineups exchanged. No position since #13 wasn't listed.

Ajaywill said:

Next question - After #13 batted in the five hole, who batted next? If it was the batter listed in the six hole, no problems.

If it was the batter listed in the 5 hole, now you have an illegal substitution, since that batter was removed from the game when #13 batted and is now re-entering the game in a different place in the batting order. That would have to be appealed, but the result would be that the illegal sub player is restricted to the bench for the remainder of the game and may be declared out, depending on what happened during the at-bat.

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How do you know she's re-entering in a different place given it wasn't reported? Could be argued she re-entered in her spot and it's BOO...

SoCal_Dad said:

Only 9 players appeared on the lineup card, so it wasn't apparent when lineups exchanged. No position since #13 wasn't listed.

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One of the underlying themes in this thread is what the coach "intended" to do. I am just saying he couldn't have 10 batters in the lineup (and you can't use that as an excuse or however they tried to justify it).

TMoney said:

Yes, 9 players, and no subs.

After #13 batted in the 5 hole, the player listed in the 5 hole on the card batted. #13 was not subbed in nor was she intended to be subbed in. She was a starter, and was intended to be a starter, he just forgot to put her on his lineup card turned in to the umpire.

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I'm presuming the 9 players listed had positions notated or the umpire would have rejected the lineup card. Do you happen to know if #13 played defense?

SoCal_Dad said:

I'm presuming the 9 players listed had positions notated or the umpire would have rejected the lineup card. Do you happen to know if #13 played defense?

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I did not get that far. Once the UIC and Tourney director made their decision, I kinda lost my mind.

They had a straight line up of nine players which did not include number 13 at all either as a starter or a sub. Now 13 bats. 13 was not a starter and not listed as a sub. She is now coming in as a sub and hitting in the five spot for whoever was listed in the five spot. Speaking NFHS if this sub is not announced it's a team warning to HC for unreproted sub. If sub not listed on lineup it's another team warning to HC for correcting the lineup card. But the play stands.

As far as how "free substitution in pool play" tournament specific rule modification plays into this I'd need to see how the local rule is written. Is that literally all it says? Often these these rule modifications are not thought thru and leave a lot of situations undefined.

Umpireernie said:

They had a straight line up of nine players which did not include number 13 at all either as a starter or a sub. Now 13 bats. 13 was not a starter and not listed as a sub. She is now coming in as a sub and hitting in the five spot for whoever was listed in the five spot. Speaking NFHS if this sub is not announced it's a team warning to HC for unreproted sub. If sub not listed on lineup it's another team warning to HC for correcting the lineup card. But the play stands.

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Assuming she didn't play defense before batting...

SoCal_Dad said:

Assuming she didn't play defense before batting...

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Even if she had played defense the half inning before she still was not a reported sub or even on the lineup card as an available sub.