Illegal pitches - hands apart, hands together, and pausing

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Aug 23, 2016
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This weekend, the pitcher on DD's 8U team got called for around 20 illegal pitches over the course of two games.

Each time, the umpire told her that she had to step on the rubber with her hands apart and the ball in her pitching hand (not glove). Then she had to stay with her hands apart for two seconds, then put her hands together and pause for two seconds, then she could pitch. If she stepped on the rubber with the ball in her glove, he'd call an illegal pitch. If her hands were apart for less than whatever he decided two seconds was, then he called an illegal pitch. If she wasn't still for two seconds while her hands were together, then he called an illegal pitch.

DD has been taught that the ball could be in the glove or the pitching hand when the pitcher steps on the rubber, but that the important thing is that the hands are apart. She's also been taught that she steps on with hands apart, brings them together for at least one second, and then she's free to pitch.

So is DD's pitching coach wrong, or did the ump blow the call over and over again this weekend?

Edited to add: this was an ASA tournament.
 
Last edited:
Nov 18, 2013
2,255
113
it might vary slightly among rule sets, but I know of nothing anywhere near what the ump described. Since it's 8U I'm assuming they were inexperienced and didn't understand the rule.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
Umpire needs to go back and do some more reading of the pitching rules. Most softball rule sets are basically the same on pitching rules, leave NCAA out of it for this discussion since this is obviously not college.

The pitcher may have the ball in either the hand or glove when they engage the pitching plate.

The hands must remain apart after engaging the pitching plate long enough to at least simulate taking a signal. Nothing in the rule says this is 2 seconds.

The rule book says the hands must come together for a minimum of 1 second, however, any umpire clinic I have ever been to says the hands touching together satisfies the requirement. Nothing in the rule says the hands must be motionless when they come together, the hands may be in motion when they come together.
 
Jan 22, 2011
1,610
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I encourage my DD to step on the pitching plate with the ball in her glove, but her pitching coach tells her if the umpire tells her that's wrong to not argue and have her coach talk to the umpire after the game.

Was the umpire watching the Softball World Cup? I think the ISF rules are what he was trying to enforce.
 
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Jun 12, 2015
3,848
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Hands do have to be apart, in the rule sets I know, if I'm remembering correctly. But the ball can be in either hand or glove. You have to pause when you bring the hands together but only for a second I think. We once had a coach accuse DD of illegal pitching for this reason, ball in glove. She always approaches that way. DH is feisty about his pitchers (not just our DD) so we ended up with the tournament director and the rule book and a 10 minute or so delay (and being proven right which is always fun - it wasn't us who stopped the game, it was the other coach. DH just wouldn't give in and make her pitch in a way she's not used to because some coach was wrong and the umpire didn't know the rule).
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
USA 6-2-E
"The pitcher shall bring the hands together for not less than one second and not more than 10 seconds before releasing the ball."
The rule says nothing about the pitcher must pause after bringing the hands together.

NFHS 6-1-1-c
"After completing b above, the pitcher shall bring the hands together in front of the body for not less than one second and not more than 10 seconds before releasing the ball. the hands may be motionless or moving."
NFHS specifically states the hands may be in motion when they come together.

USSSA 6-1-D
After completing “C” above, the pitcher shall bring the hands together in front of the body for not more than 10 seconds before releasing the ball. The hands may be motionless or moving.
USSSA just like NFHS specifically states the hands may be in motion.

NSA 6-1-C
The pitcher shall bring the hands together or touch them together for no more than ten seconds.
As with USA, no mention of the hands must be stationary when they come together.

USFA 1001-3
After completing “2” above, the pitcher shall bring her hands together in front of the body for not less than one second and not more than 10 seconds before she releases the ball.
Again, no mention of the hands must be stationary or pause after coming together.
 
May 7, 2008
8,506
48
Tucson
At 8U? I would have came unglued. I am all for an umpire instructing her once, if he is doing it correctly, but this umpire is very wrong.
 

Strike2

Allergic to BS
Nov 14, 2014
2,044
113
So is DD's pitching coach wrong, or did the ump blow the call over and over again this weekend? Edited to add: this was an ASA tournament.

It's Incredible that this was tolerated for an inning, much less two games. While you can't argue with the pure judgement "balls and strikes" call, but you most certainly can call out a blatant rules misinterpretation. Most every tournament has a tournament director and a head umpire to resolve disputes over rules. 20 illegal pitch calls is ridiculous, and this individual should find another line of work.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
Yep, I am all about the umps trying to teach the younger girls the correct way, but at least know what you are talking about.

Nope, nope and nope. The umpire shouldn't be trying to teach the players anything, that is the coaches' job.

If there is a problem with the pitcher's delivery, the umpire should tell the coach ESPECIALLY at such a young age, and let the coach instruct the player on what she needs to do.
 

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