USA tournament rules

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Aug 21, 2011
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38°41'44"N 121°9'47.5"W
This doesn't pertain to game time rules. Once a team plays in a USA qualifier at A level, metros in this case, can the drop down to B for state? My recollection is no. I was called by a coach today who asked me this, because there are two teams that are doing just that. Also, there are two more teams that should be playing at A, but are staying down. Because of this, there are not enough A teams and the cancelled the tournament for the A level. Is there anything the commissioner can or should do to keep parity between the teams.
 
Oct 30, 2014
292
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Seattle
That seems pretty lame for the teams to do. Could the tournament director change it to an "open" tournament where they use the seeding day to decide who goes into "gold" (A) and who goes into "silver" (B)? We sometimes have that happen here but not for a big tournament like state.
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
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If they cancelled the A tournament and that is why teams want to play B I guess I understand wanting to play versus stay home.

But if they had a large enough field to play A but a the two teams wanted to play B you would think the state organization would say you can play A or nothing.
 
Mar 26, 2013
1,934
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This doesn't pertain to game time rules. Once a team plays in a USA qualifier at A level, metros in this case, can the drop down to B for state? My recollection is no. I was called by a coach today who asked me this, because there are two teams that are doing just that. Also, there are two more teams that should be playing at A, but are staying down. Because of this, there are not enough A teams and the cancelled the tournament for the A level. Is there anything the commissioner can or should do to keep parity between the teams.
Which state? Metro and state associations are peers and usually hold closed championships where only teams registered with them are eligible to enter, however I know there are exceptions (e.g. Ohio).

Seems strange state couldn't get enough A teams. What age group?
 
Nov 18, 2013
2,255
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USA/ASA allows states/regions to make their own rules so they can do pretty much whatever they want. Some of the things ASA/USA softball has done here are disgraceful and the national office just looks the other way.
 
Nov 18, 2013
2,255
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Care to share what was disgraceful?


One National qualifier the TD was on a community rec programs board and also served as an ASA Director. He organized the pools so the top travel teams were on one side of the bracket and his team was on the other side. It’s common to see a little favoritism to the host team, but he didn’t even attempt to make it look legit. Anyway, one of the teams had secured a berth at an earlier tourney. If they had won the tourney, the berth would drop to the second place team. Meaning if they won, the team from the winners bracket would get the berth no matter what. This coach decided to throw the losers bracket finals so that wouldn’t happen. He didn’t just start a #3 pitcher and play girls out of position. He had them bunting and not running to first, stepping off base to get out, fielders were throwing to the wrong base etc. No attempt to disguise it. He was told they couldn’t forfeit or they’d lose the berth they already secured so he made a mockery of the game instead. Their own parents were so upset many left the field. TD and state ASA did absolutely nothing.

Had another national qualifier rained out before pool play ended. They decided to hand out berths based on run differential in pool play as the first tie breaker. The ad hoc berth procedures meant the teams that ran up the score vs rec teams got berths while teams that eased off or faced other travel teams got zip. I understood not being able to control the weather, but there was another qualifier coming up they could have awarded extra berths at.

At an ASA Gold qualifier a few years ago they combined the tourney and awarded berths for ASA/USA A, ASA Gold, USSSA and NAFA. Since it was partially an ASA/USA A qualifier they allowed college players, which aren’t allowed in ASA Gold. The top team in the tourney had an automatic PGF bid and announced before tourney they wouldn’t take the ASA berth. They were short a couple of players so they picked up a couple of D1 college girls. They cruised through bracket play and forfeited the championship game and the losers bracket winner got the ASA Gold berth.

Our state ASA is in bed locally NAFA. NAFA runs a “Nationals” consisting mainly of MN teams with a couple from NE or WI. Our state ASA doesn’t want to compete with NAFA so for the most part MN teams don’t attend ASA Northern Nationals, even when they’re played in Rochester MN. Perhaps more crooked than disgraceful, but either way MN teams are missing out on a Nationals that actually has teams from various states for this joke NAFA Nationals.

This last one I mentioned in another thread. State ASA bans all girls in Minnesota from playing for travel teams if they’re eligible for 12U or younger. We call community rec teams “travel, but it’s not what travel is considered in the rest of the country. This was another rule to benefit the clowns with NAFA and an equally corrupt organization called MMFL. They claimed “it’s for the girls” so they’re not pressured to join club programs, but it’s really because it’s the community programs who line their pockets. I believe MMFL is now defunct, so not sure how they’re structured today. They still don’t allow 12U families to choose if their kids should play rec or travel though.

Ahh, memories. I guess I don’t miss the younger ages as much as I thought :)
 
Mar 26, 2013
1,934
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This last one I mentioned in another thread. State ASA bans all girls in Minnesota from playing for travel teams if they’re eligible for 12U or younger. We call community rec teams “travel, but it’s not what travel is considered in the rest of the country. This was another rule to benefit the clowns with NAFA and an equally corrupt organization called MMFL. They claimed “it’s for the girls” so they’re not pressured to join club programs, but it’s really because it’s the community programs who line their pockets. I believe MMFL is now defunct, so not sure how they’re structured today. They still don’t allow 12U families to choose if their kids should play rec or travel though.
I think this explains why SoCal teams were able to get the 12U NQ berth via mail - SoCal team would send in their entry fee and get the berth since no other teams entered. Became unnecessary in SoCal after 2009 when ASA greatly expanded the number of assoc berths (SoCal went from 3 berths to 12), especially after PGF added 12U.
 
Nov 25, 2015
77
6
The Frozen Tundra
Part of the MN problem is very few tourny's give out ASA/USA berths. 90% plus give out NAFA berths only. The "new" group is 75% of old MMFL so don't expect much for changes. Specially when one of top guys also runs/owns NAFA.

Good thing about no under 12u playing club is get to see same groups play/grow up together 5-6 years. Fun seeing same girls all the time.

Very bad side is one girl at 10u got screwed over by system. She could have easily been a starter on a 12u A team. THAT GOOD. But her city softball program would not let her move up or give her a wavier so she could play for a city with a team that matched her skills. So she was stuck on a team with C players that when you watched them play were hoping did not get hurt.

Compromise, the team played B level ball where when she dominated they won, but if played a team that could hit her, there would be more jumping out of the way of the ball buy fielders then outs made.
 

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