No.
"Earning your way on base" isn't the same thing as "earning a base".
Besides that, the courtesy runner rule specifically says that you can't do this.
Regarding the DP/Flex and courtesy runners
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No.
"Earning your way on base" isn't the same thing as "earning a base".
Besides that, the courtesy runner rule specifically says that you can't do this.
If this player was the DP then she wouldn't have a starting defensive position listed on the line up card. She can't be the starting catcher.
After the top of the first inning, there's no requirement that the listed F1 or F2 play any certain length of time. This is just a convention arrived at to account for the fact that, in the top of the first inning, neither the pitcher or catcher will have yet played those positions. So you have to come up with some way to identify someone as the pitcher and catcher, just For the sake of the courtesy runner rule.
Depending on rule set, if a courtesy runner was used for the pitcher or catcher in the top of the first inning they must face at least one batter for a pitch. NFHS requires them to face the first batter, if they do not it is considered an illegal substitution.
NFHS (2015) and USA/ASA (2013) rules don't specify starter, they just reference the line-up. Would specifying the F1/F2 position for DP after submitting the starting line-up enable a CR for them in the top of first inning?
For the top of the first inning only, you're bound to stick with whoever is listed as the pitcher or catcher when the line-up is first submitted and approved. Handing in your line-up, then saying that your DP (who should have no defensive position listed) will move to F1 or F2 in the next half inning (bottom of first) is a projected substitution and those aren't allowed.
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
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No, that is not a projected substitution unless you are wearing an NFHS tin foil hat.
Fair enough! But I don't see how someone can play defense for someone before you actually take the field and play defense.I did a lot of digging- rule book, case book, USA website plays- and couldn't find anything that addresses this specific question. I was trying to piece together several different rules to come up with an answer.
The "projected sub" angle might not have been the right one, but I'll still say that, with respect to using a courtesy runner in the top of the first inning, you're still restricted to whoever is F1 or F2 on the original line-up.
From piecing together three or four different rules and case plays, I'd have to say that being listed as the starting pitcher/catcher is treated as the exact equivalent of " having physically played the position in the previous inning". You're bound by that and no amount of substituting or swapping the DP and FLEX is going to change that.
An example of why this should be: Assume it's any inning other than the first, let's say the third. The DP (who hasn't played defense to that point) bats and reaches base. Her coach tells the umpire that "my DP will be pitching next inning". He then requests a courtesy runner since his DP is "now" the pitcher.
Sorry, that doesn't fly. The DP did not "physically play the position" in the previous inning.
If you can't use a courtesy runner for the DP in this scenario for innings 2 on up, then you can't use one in inning 1 either- even if there isn't any one single rule that states that.
Better?
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
- 48
They are not, they are taking their place in the batting order and the change is in effect when reported. I am, of course, referring to an actual change in the line-up, not just juggling defensive designations.
I did a lot of digging- rule book, case book, USA website plays- and couldn't find anything that addresses this specific question. I was trying to piece together several different rules to come up with an answer.
The "projected sub" angle might not have been the right one, but I'll still say that, with respect to using a courtesy runner in the top of the first inning, you're still restricted to whoever is F1 or F2 on the original line-up.
From piecing together three or four different rules and case plays, I'd have to say that being listed as the starting pitcher/catcher is treated as the exact equivalent of " having physically played the position in the previous inning". You're bound by that and no amount of substituting or swapping the DP and FLEX is going to change that.
An example of why this should be: Assume it's any inning other than the first, let's say the third. The DP (who hasn't played defense to that point) bats and reaches base. Her coach tells the umpire that "my DP will be pitching next inning". He then requests a courtesy runner since his DP is "now" the pitcher.
Sorry, that doesn't fly. The DP did not "physically play the position" in the previous inning.
If you can't use a courtesy runner for the DP in this scenario for innings 2 on up, then you can't use one in inning 1 either- even if there isn't any one single rule that states that.
Better?
I have no problem with them making a change which include the pitcher and catcher prior to the 1st pitch of the game. For that matter, even if it is made prior to the player in question (F1/F2) is due to bat, but definitely prior to the 3rd out of that half an inning. Remember, in USA there is no restriction on when a substitution may be made. There is nothing that states it must be those players listed in those position when the card is presented to the umpire at the pre-game. And I certainly cannot see any actual advantage to allowing a team burn a sub or re-entry prior to it taking their turn at bat.
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
- 48
But if you really want to get down to it, the coach could simply just designate the first 2 batters as F1 & F2 and then put whatever battery you want on the field in the bottom of the 1st. Thing is, does a coach really want to put someone in that position just for two CRs that may not be necessary and get stuck with those two batters at the top of the order or waste two more subs on them?
