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May 6, 2015
2,397
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10u rec softball last night, I m AC of away team, bottom of the 4th, away team up by 2 (5-3), Runner on 3B, 2 outs.

batter hits ball, bounces in box or on plate, then into fair territory, but barely. F2 picks up ball, tags out runner attempting to come home, PU (only umpire) calls girl out. F1 and F2 immediately start to hustle towards dugout, I call out for rest of defense to come in, we are circling up for a cheer before going to bat to start the 5th. PU says hold on, hold the defense, and says he saw he ball bounce off the batter/runner while she was in the box, foul ball, runner back to 3B, batter back in box.

Why not call the ball foul right away? I actually saw it hit batter as well, probably had better angle, as hit the front leg of batter, but when he did not initially call foul, I figured he had not seen it, and was not going to dispute umpire (whom we get a lot and I really like).

Of course, at that point, P who was kinda cruising, starts to fall apart and/or get tired, walks a ton of batters, and on coach pitching once 4 ball count is reached with bases loaded, hit results in 3 runs scoring. we give up 4 runs total that half inning, proceed to tie it in top of 5th, but then hit drop dead time, so score reverts.

I am all for getting the call right, but at what point does the mistake made become irreversible?
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
10u rec softball last night, I m AC of away team, bottom of the 4th, away team up by 2 (5-3), Runner on 3B, 2 outs.

batter hits ball, bounces in box or on plate, then into fair territory, but barely. F2 picks up ball, tags out runner attempting to come home, PU (only umpire) calls girl out. F1 and F2 immediately start to hustle towards dugout, I call out for rest of defense to come in, we are circling up for a cheer before going to bat to start the 5th. PU says hold on, hold the defense, and says he saw he ball bounce off the batter/runner while she was in the box, foul ball, runner back to 3B, batter back in box.

Why not call the ball foul right away? I actually saw it hit batter as well, probably had better angle, as hit the front leg of batter, but when he did not initially call foul, I figured he had not seen it, and was not going to dispute umpire (whom we get a lot and I really like).

Of course, at that point, P who was kinda cruising, starts to fall apart and/or get tired, walks a ton of batters, and on coach pitching once 4 ball count is reached with bases loaded, hit results in 3 runs scoring. we give up 4 runs total that half inning, proceed to tie it in top of 5th, but then hit drop dead time, so score reverts.

I am all for getting the call right, but at what point does the mistake made become irreversible?


What mistake? The umpire called it foul and you agree? There is no urgency in calling a ball "foul". For as much as we know, the umpire did call it foul and no one was paying attention. It is not unusual for people to be so involved in the game, they are oblivious to a call
 
Jan 31, 2011
453
43
As MTR said, no issues. Sure, it would be nice to get that call immediately, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Its weird, something unusual like that happens, then its almost an omen. One bad thing after another, then the wheels come completely off the cart... You would be hard pressed to find a coach that hasn't experienced a situation similar to what you did. The absolute best thing is to refocus your players, emphasize they need to forget it. Don't let them focus on what just transpired. Immediately drop it and get back on defense and end the inning. Believe me, those wheels are never too tight and can start loosening when you hit a bump...
 
May 6, 2015
2,397
113
OK, just wanted to check, I just found it odd that the umpire, with no prompting/comments/appeals would change his own original call. he let play continue, ball fielded cleanly in fair territory, tag put on runner, he calls out, team starts to leave the field, then he says hold the defense, then he says he thinks ball hit runner in the box (which it did, I had much better angle from the dugout).

does this happen often, where they change their own call with no appeals?
 
Jan 31, 2011
453
43
I missed the part where he called the runner at the plate out. Now, I get it. Wow. WTH?
 
Sep 14, 2011
768
18
Glendale, AZ
..I am all for getting the call right, but at what point does the mistake made become irreversible?

So you only want to get the call right when it goes in your favor? :)

Generally, the call would be irreversible after the next pitch.

My story: I am working a 16U rec league game solo, bases loaded, one out.
Batter swings and misses for strike three, catcher drops the ball. Batter and runners start running, catcher picks up the ball, steps on home, then throws to first before the batter-runner gets there.

I brain fart, call both outs and tell the teams to change sides. During the break, I hear a comment to the effect of "I thought that the force at home was only with two outs..."

Well, I screwed that up...called both coaches out and explained that I screwed up, we were going to reset with the bases loaded and two outs and the next batter up. Both coaches understood and we moved on.
 
Mar 14, 2017
453
43
Michigan
Well, I screwed that up...called both coaches out and explained that I screwed up, we were going to reset with the bases loaded and two outs and the next batter up. Both coaches understood and we moved on.

I would much rather do that and have it right, than have the umpire who can't admit they screwed up and then starts making up lies that didn't happen to justify their mistake.

My Dad was the head of umpires for Northern Michigan, but then became a coach. I later assisted him as a coach. One thing he always taught me is to ask politely , "What did you see?" They may not have been looking at the same thing, or they may have seen it differently. I'm not going to get a call changed if you didn't see it the way I did. We may not have a misinterpretation of a rule if we saw different things. It always helped keep the situation amicable. I might then politely ask a question, so they know why I'm asking to confer. "So you didn't see the ball on the ground after the tag? Oh OK." If they didn't see it then I might as well go back to the dugout.


DD's team lost a game on a blown call at the plate, when the catcher didn't catch a low throw when the runner slid in, but it trickled between her legs and was hidden under her. The ump was in great position to see the catch and tag, but unfortunately the catcher's body blocked the view of the loose ball. When he called the runner out, and then everyone sitting behind the backstop simultaneously said, "She dropped the ball" he knew he missed something, but instead of saying he didn't see the catcher drop the ball he made up some story about how she did drop it but picked it up again and tagged her a second time before the runner crossed the plate.

The idea of a catcher having time to tag, drop the ball, pick it up, and tag the runner again before she touched the plate was pretty absurd. I could easily, well somewhat easily, accept him saying, "I didn't see that." But you lose all credibility when you start lying and making stuff up.
 
Mar 2, 2013
444
0
Keep in mind that this isn't an "appeal." Appeals are limited to the four in the rule book. What you are referring to is "going for help;" albeit a bit odd since it was only one umpire. I would chalk this up to a situation that the umpire would handle differently in the future. Sometimes it takes a few seconds to digest what occurred. That likely happened here.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
The idea of a catcher having time to tag, drop the ball, pick it up, and tag the runner again before she touched the plate was pretty absurd. I could easily, well somewhat easily, accept him saying, "I didn't see that." But you lose all credibility when you start lying and making stuff up.

Absolutely, I always preach to never lie, it kills any credibility for the rest of that game, tournament and just about as long as the team continues to play where you umpire. If you miss it, you miss it
 
May 6, 2015
2,397
113
Thanks for all the feedback, early in the season for the umpires as well I guess. If he had asked, me, I would have said ball hit batter in the box, but I am not about to offer unsolicited help (not because the play helped us, just want to respect the umpire and not seem to be trying to interfere).

really like this umpire, he is good with the girls, especially the younger ones. stickler (checks bats and helmets prior to every game), but approachable and friendly to talk to.
 

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