Courtesy Runner -- Team out of subs and still uses one.

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Mar 26, 2013
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That it did and was the reference to which I was responding. "no subs" means no subs and that would include a player with a reentry available (see USA definitions of Substitute)
2013 Participant Manual def of Substitute is a non-starter OR someone that has re-entered. Has that changed?

Regardless of the definition:
1) The team wouldn't be shorthanded if the DQ'd player wasn't in the game/lineup at the time.
2) Just because there are no subs available for a CR for the catcher doesn't mean there isn't a "sub" available for the DQ'd player.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
2013 Participant Manual def of Substitute is a non-starter OR someone that has re-entered. Has that changed?

Nope which is why when the OP states there were no subs available, that also means there were no re-entries available.

Regardless of the definition:
1) The team wouldn't be shorthanded if the DQ'd player wasn't in the game/lineup at the time.
2) Just because there are no subs available for a CR for the catcher doesn't mean there isn't a "sub" available for the DQ'd player.

Yeah, just keep spinning and confusing the point of the OP. Or as you would probably here in SoCal..... whatev
 

JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
If no subs are available does ASA allow the last batted out to be the courtesy runner? That is what we used to do, but not sure if that was an ASA or a local rule. We only carried 12 players back in 10U and 12U, so we never had many subs available since we had 2 catchers and 2 pitchers.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
No, I dont know of any rule set other than possibly local leagues that allow courtesy runners to be last out. A courtesy runner may only be a player who has not yet participated in the game. Once a player has been used in the lineup they may no longer be a courtesy runner.
 
Nov 19, 2013
8
0
This is covered under ASA (USA Softball) rule 8-10-A. A team may use a courtesy runner for a pitcher or catcher provided the pitcher and catcher bats for themselves and reaches base safely.

Key is this is not a sub, it is a courtesy runner.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
This is covered under ASA (USA Softball) rule 8-10-A. A team may use a courtesy runner for a pitcher or catcher provided the pitcher and catcher bats for themselves and reaches base safely.

Key is this is not a sub, it is a courtesy runner.

Did you bother reading the thread before posting this?
 
Mar 26, 2013
1,934
0
Nope which is why when the OP states there were no subs available, that also means there were no re-entries available.
How does a starter that has left the game and not re-entered meet the book definition of a sub?

SUBSTITUTE: Any member of a team's roster who is not listed as a starting player; or a player who leaves and re-enters the game.

Yeah, just keep spinning and confusing the point of the OP. Or as you would probably here in SoCal..... whatev
“Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong.”
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
How does a starter that has left the game and not re-entered meet the book definition of a sub?

SUBSTITUTE: Any member of a team's roster who is not listed as a starting player; or a player who leaves and re-enters the game.

Didn't you just answer your own question?

“Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong.”

I challenge you to find an insult in the post, other than what you want to make up to satisfy the spin.
 
Mar 26, 2013
1,934
0
Didn't you just answer your own question?
Applying the definition of Substitute to "no subs available" based on their current status doesn't really work since a subbed-out starter that hasn't re-entered yet could be available. Applying the definition based on what they'd be after a legal substitution does fit/work, but then I don't see the significance of the definition for you to reference it. Perhaps you can explain why you referenced the definition.

However, OP stated "no subs available" in the context of a CR for the catcher, which would be non-starters that haven't entered yet nor CR'd for the pitcher. You know that is different criteria than for a substitution. You also know the availability of subs can vary within a line-up due to re-entries, yet you misapplied your perceived unavailability of a sub for the catcher to the DQ'd player.

I challenge you to find an insult in the post, other than what you want to make up to satisfy the spin.
No spin - your whole post was insulting to me and SoCal. You went negative because you couldn't rebut my points, which was the point of the quote I used.
 

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