Listen to this mess.

Semi-finals of a tournament two bitter rivals playing

Background- My teams are aggressive base running teams and sometimes umpires call time out because they assume a play is over. It's a pet peeve of mine when umpires call time when all the baserunners almost back to the base and the ball is in the circle. I realize it speeds the game up, but there's always the chance that the pitcher might lose her mind and make a bad throw to a base.

Another pet peeve of mine is coaches sitting on their stupid buckets outside the dugout. I've seen more than one bucket coach get hit by an errant throw and cause a deflection that changed the probable outcome of the play.

Here's the story: My team is leading 3-1 late in the game and we are facing a pitcher who at the time is undefeated in her young career (10U at the time of the story but she pitched at the 14U nationals this season). Her team hits well, but aside from her striking out a lot of people they are pretty weak defensively and we are giving them fits bunting and running the bases.

My daughter is on first and she's a champion sprinter. My batter singles and my daughter goes first to third and rounds aggressively. The throw comes in to the pitcher out of the circle and my daughter stops and starts returning to third.

The opposing coach get off his bucket assuming the play is over and starts walking toward the field. He gets to the foul line and the two runners are both still off the base by a few steps but headed back, and the pitcher is walking to the circle. He says, "Blue, can I have time?" and steps into fair territory before the field ump responds, so I send my daughter home. The field ump acknowledges him and starts to raise his hands to signal time, but then realizes there is a play going on. The pitcher throws home but the throw is late, and the batter takes off for second on the throw.

His argument is, "Why were you raising your hands if time wasn't being called." My comment is, "You can't penalize me because he entered play with a live runner." The two umps and coaches are having a discussion and the coaches are a little heated.

The field umpire who was calling the time out said, "We screwed this up. Now we have to make it right." Those magic words chilled both coaches out and everyone became really good listeners.

The home plate umpire, who runs a really good game, says, "The runner on third was already going to score before you came onto the field, so we are counting the run, but the batter took second on the throw after you lifted your arms to call time, so she has to go back."

Now, I know this is a fabrication, because I sent her because I was mad that he was walking on the field, but it was a nice compromise that both teams seemed able to live with.


If you were the TD or UIC what would you have ruled?

Look back rule on your daughter. After ball was in the circle she stopped and changed directions back to 3rd. Then changed again when you sent her home.

edit - I see you said pitcher was out of circle never mind.

edit 2 - I'd have ruled in your favor. Coach came out before play was over.

Runner on 3 scores BR from 1 safe at 2. It's a HTBT type of deal. But assuming the Pitcher wasn't in the circle with control of the ball, the LBR isn't in effect. So if the coach tried to call TO, until it's granted, live ball. Actually, it's basically live ball all the time unless a foul ball is hit, it's between innings or TO is granted by the umpires.

ETA: I'm sure I missed a few exceptions on this and I'm also sure I will be immediately reminded of them

Once an umpire calls time, that's it. You have time. No runner can advance or be put out. All play ends.

Now, did this umpire start to call time or did he actually call time? That decision is his discretion. He either did or he didn't. Let the play be affected accordingly.

Did the defense stop playing because of what the umpire did? Then I'd probably enforce the time out. Put the runners back.

Did the defense stop playing because the coach walked out on the field? Then I might have a tendency to say time was not called. All play stands.

Either way, this coach is going to know in no uncertain terms that before entering the field he had better wait until time is granted and he'd better realize that he can request time, but time isn't out until the umpire says it is.

And umpires...don't call time until you know for darn sure that the play is really over! You can screw up a good ballgame that way!

BretMan, the umpire never vocalized a time out, and was "starting to raise his hands." I never saw him, but those were the opposing coaches words. The defense did not stop playing, because the pitcher unsuccessfully threw home, and the catcher unsuccessfully threw to second.

I fully admit I was pulling a fast one because I wasn't going to send the runner home until I saw him walking past me and toward the foul line, but if he's going to step onto the field when the runners are off base and the ball isn't in the circle then I'm going to exploit his lack of decorum.

Big Daddy Michigan said:

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Another pet peeve of mine is coaches sitting on their stupid buckets outside the dugout. I've seen more than one bucket coach get hit by an errant throw and cause a deflection that changed the probable outcome of the play.

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Click to expand...

Assume its the defensive coach on the bucket ... this should be a DEAB BALL, ball out of play, awards bases accordingly. Coaches on buckets should know the risk.

If a dugout is enclosed by a fence, as an official, wouldn't you want the coaches in the dugout? Only bad can come from the coaches being outside. (interference, fielder runs into them, injury by getting hit by the ball...) There is clearly no coaching advantage to being on the other side of the fence. When I last coached Varsity Softball Michigan HSAA was very strict about coaches being in the dugout, but that was 17 years ago. Now most coaches are standing around outside the dugouts or sitting on buckets outside the dugouts. I'm not sure if the rule has changed or if the enforcement has just become more lax.

Is this a Michigan thing or everywhere?

It is a thing, I will take a nap in dugout if they would shut up.

Enforcement has become lax.

Some coaches do it so they can single pitches to the catcher without the catcher having to strain to look through the fence, or be seen within the little opening. I sort of get that, but you can solve that problem by teaching your catchers to call the game.

A lot seem to do it because they think their players won't be able to play without them directing every move and calling out constant instructions. They believe they are as important as any of the players on the field.

Me? When I coached I would sit toward the middle of the bench in the dugout and let the players play. If I needed to inform them of something I would move the opening and let them know. Then I would go back on the bench where I belonged. If I had to call pitches, I would sit in the opening, inside not outside the dugout, then move my little bucket when we came off defense so the players could get in. If you use a bucket that contains wiffle balls it's really not that tough to move.