Illegal pitch is runner out.

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martianr

Softball DAD
Jan 26, 2014
177
18
Whiting, Iowa
I am throwing this out there. I can across this thinking of weird situation. I believe this is weird, I was wondering if a runner is out for leaving or supposedly leaving early on an illegal pitch. Here is what I found on https://forum.officiating.com/softball/64421-illegal-pitch-runner-leaves-early.html


SITUATION 7: B2 is at bat with R1 on first base. F1 begins her wind up and then holds onto the ball instead of releasing it toward B2. R1 leaves first base anticipating that F1 will release the pitch. RULING: A pitching and base-running infraction have occurred at virtually the same time and both are penalized. R1 is out for leaving the base before release of the pitch; an illegal pitch is called on F1 for failing to deliver the pitch, which results in a ball being awarded to B2. However, if in the umpire’s judgment, F1’s act was deliberate to bait and deceive R1 into leaving the base early, the umpire shall call “time” and “no pitch.” The umpire shall eject F1 and/or the head coach from the game. If the umpire believes the coach is directly responsible for the actions of F1, the umpire may eject only the coach. The defensive team is attempting to benefit by circumventing the rules. R1 is obliged to stay in contact with the base until the ball is released by the pitcher; however, the tactic being utilized by the defense is deceptive and not in accordance with the spirit of fair play. (3-6-13b, c; 6-2-1; 8-6-21)

So there is some intrep for intent to cause the offense to leave early where the umpire could not call the runner out based on F1's actions.


I would like to see this rule get enforced to the letter of the rule. Thank goodness common sense will kick in. I think there may be a lot of coachers getting kicked out and maybe players. On the flip side what an interesting strategy that would be to get an out. HAHA.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
I guess Im not completely following what you are trying to get at. I have umpired games for 10 years and watched literally thousands more and have never seen a pitcher commit an illegal pitch solely for the purpose of getting a runner to leave base early. Is there a particular situation you witnessed where you felt the pitcher committed an illegal pitch to get the runner to leave early? There are all kinds of illegal acts a pitcher can commit which would have no bearing at all on if the runner left early or not. Double touching the ball, leaping, crow hopping, stepping back, stepping out of the lane etc. None of these infractions would have any bearing at all on the runner leaving early. In fact, if the runner does leave early, it is a no pitch situation and man of those infractions would then not have happened since the pitch never occured. But, if the pitcher did double touch, step back, lick fingers and go to ball etc, those infractions all most likely occured prior to the runner leaving early and in those situations both infractions are penalized. The runner is out for leaving early and the illegal pitch infraction is enforced.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
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What about a leap or no drag pitch? That would be one the runner would be moving on the pitchers movement, could leave early, & have a double infraction.

Technically yes, but we are talking about a fraction of a second situation. Umpires are instructed not to call a runner for leaving early unless they are sure of the violation, and in a 2 umpire system there is not a chance in the world an umpire could see both the leap and a runner leaving early. With runners on base the umpire is always at an angle to both players and there is no way to possibly see both infractions at once. When a runner does leave early it is usually pretty obvious they were way off well before the release of the pitch and a leap would not occurred at that point. In a 3 umpire system in many cases you will have an umpire looking directly at both the runner and pitcher in the same line of sight. In that case, yes, the umpire could see both at once but again you are talking a fraction of a second and a runner off by maybe a few inches during that time frame. With 10,000 frame per second slow motion instant replay, sure it can be seen but not in real time with actual human vision.
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
I guess Im not completely following what you are trying to get at. I have umpired games for 10 years and watched literally thousands more and have never seen a pitcher commit an illegal pitch solely for the purpose of getting a runner to leave base early. Is there a particular situation you witnessed where you felt the pitcher committed an illegal pitch to get the runner to leave early? There are all kinds of illegal acts a pitcher can commit which would have no bearing at all on if the runner left early or not. Double touching the ball, leaping, crow hopping, stepping back, stepping out of the lane etc. None of these infractions would have any bearing at all on the runner leaving early. In fact, if the runner does leave early, it is a no pitch situation and man of those infractions would then not have happened since the pitch never occured. But, if the pitcher did double touch, step back, lick fingers and go to ball etc, those infractions all most likely occured prior to the runner leaving early and in those situations both infractions are penalized. The runner is out for leaving early and the illegal pitch infraction is enforced.

Just want to make sure I'm following...runner is on the base, pitcher begins her pitching motion, batter asking for time backs out of the box but time is not granted, pitcher sees batter is out of the box continues with her motion but hangs on to the ball, at the normal point where she would have released the ball runner takes a step off the base then realizes what happened and steps back to the base. Ruling = ball on the batter and runner is out
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
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Now you have a completely different situation. You have an infraction on 3 different players, the batter is to remain in the box and not call time or any other action which could cause the pitcher to commit an illegal pitch, you have the pitcher not releasing the ball and a runner leaving before the release of the pitch. This was caused by the batter requesting time and leaving the batters box. It is a no pitch situation, the batter is instructed to remain in the box, the pitcher instructed to deliver the pitch regardless of the batters actions and put the runner back on base.
 
Sep 14, 2011
768
18
Glendale, AZ
Just want to make sure I'm following...runner is on the base, pitcher begins her pitching motion, batter asking for time backs out of the box but time is not granted, pitcher sees batter is out of the box continues with her motion but hangs on to the ball, at the normal point where she would have released the ball runner takes a step off the base then realizes what happened and steps back to the base. Ruling = ball on the batter and runner is out

Now you have changed the situation a bit.

In this case, with the batter stepping out of the box, and that action causing the pitcher to not release the ball, the umpire should declare a "No Pitch", and all action is cancelled.
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
Thx, I was just trying to think of why the pitcher might not release the ball?

Just overall seems odd to punish the runner when there is absolutely no way the runner can know for sure if the pitcher is going to release the ball. If the runner had to wait until they were 100% sure the ball had left the pitchers hand there could be no stolen bases. It seems the defense gets the benefit of the doubt that they were not trying to circumvent the rule or play fair but the runner is simply put in a no-win situation.

Not saying it is not how the rule is written just does not seem fair...then again it's not like this is happening every game or something, although it seems I remember it happening a couple times just don't remember a big fuss, usually just an illegal pitch and a ball and nothing else ,maybe there weren't any runners on base...like I said cant really remember it clearly.
 

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