Seemingly intentional drop

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Dec 10, 2015
845
63
Chautauqua County
yeah, maybe, but the result was a run scored with runners on second and third. this wasn't going to happen on this play unless you forced the throw. for all we know a second run could have scored or even a third. we like to see the D throwing a ball around.
 
Mar 4, 2016
66
6
I get the IFF rule and understand it. The problem I have is a lot of the time the umps will not state rather the batter is "out" due to infield fly or if the batter is safe because the ball was dropped, leaving our base runners stuck in a tough spot. If the batter is not out due to IFF rule then we have a bunch of sitting ducks on bases that should be running. I know it sounds easy enough, but the call is not up to the players and unless the ump yells loud enough "infield fly, batters out" our team is all kinda looking around at everyone. At first we told the kids to stay on base for infield flys, which has worked for the most part but the other weekend we had a pop up with bases loaded and the ball hit the girls glove in the dirt but she missed it and it landed in the outfield. Had she not touched it, it would have landed in the infield. well needless to say, the runners held their bag and the other team got a easy double play because of the force. Anyways, my question is should the umpires yell this out when it happens or is it left up to the players to make the decision what the umpire is going to decide??
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
Umpires should call it verbally if they believe it is an IFF situation, but even if they forget to call it, it does not change the fact it was in IFF. If the umpires do not call it and runners get doubled up for holding their bases, the umpires can retroactively call it, correct their error and put the runners back on base that were put out due to not calling the situation.

Based on some of your post, you appear to be under the impression the ball must be in the dirt infield to be an IFF. The rule states catchable by an infielder with normal effort. The ball could actually be caught by an outfielder and still be an IFF, and the ball could also be in the grass and still be catchable with normal effort by an infielder. A fly ball in the infield could also not be catchable with normal effort and therefor not be judged an IFF.
 
Sep 14, 2011
768
18
Glendale, AZ
Comp is exactly right, as usual.

The other thing to remember is that the verbal call of "Infield Fly, Batter's Out!" is often lost in all of the fans, players, and coaches shouting instructions and/or encouragement to the players. The umpire should also signal by raising his hand above his head with a fist, basically, the out signal.

Instead of watching the ball and the fielders and trying to figure out if it is an infield fly, take a look at the umpire for the signal if it's too noisy.
 
Dec 19, 2012
1,428
0
yeah, maybe, but the result was a run scored with runners on second and third. this wasn't going to happen on this play unless you forced the throw. for all we know a second run could have scored or even a third. we like to see the D throwing a ball around.

We're talking about a pop up to the pitcher in 18u. This was not good aggressive baserunning. This was not knowing the rules.
 
Dec 10, 2015
845
63
Chautauqua County
Thanks, Lenski, but how is this not knowing the rules? Batter is out and runners may advance at their own risk, which she did on the dropped ball. 3B coach or runner must have saw something that made them think the risk was worth it. Maybe P has her back to the runner, maybe ball bounced away from her, maybe she was upset at the drop, maybe the catcher was napping or F5 wasn't in position to hold the runner. Point is, sometimes you take a chance and it works or it doesn't but if you never take a chance, you'll never know.
We teach our players about the IFF and that, if the ball is dropped and they think they can make the next base, then go for it. Key word here is "think", think aggressive and smart. We don't coach robots. But, each to their own and I certainly respect your opinion.
 
Jun 11, 2013
2,619
113
Thanks, Lenski, but how is this not knowing the rules? Batter is out and runners may advance at their own risk, which she did on the dropped ball. 3B coach or runner must have saw something that made them think the risk was worth it. Maybe P has her back to the runner, maybe ball bounced away from her, maybe she was upset at the drop, maybe the catcher was napping or F5 wasn't in position to hold the runner. Point is, sometimes you take a chance and it works or it doesn't but if you never take a chance, you'll never know.
We teach our players about the IFF and that, if the ball is dropped and they think they can make the next base, then go for it. Key word here is "think", think aggressive and smart. We don't coach robots. But, each to their own and I certainly respect your opinion.

I assure you the coach did not send the kid and the kid wasn't being aggressive. She didn't know the rule (or forgot). I'm for aggressive base running but in this case it was stupid. Sometimes the wrong move works out.
 
Dec 10, 2015
845
63
Chautauqua County
Totally agree on that! I guess I'm missing the point about the rule. IFF was called, ball was dropped and runner took off with risk of being put out. Unless you're saying she took off because she thought she was being forced? In that case, you're absolutely right. I didn't read the OP that way.
 
Jun 11, 2013
2,619
113
Totally agree on that! I guess I'm missing the point about the rule. IFF was called, ball was dropped and runner took off with risk of being put out. Unless you're saying she took off because she thought she was being forced? In that case, you're absolutely right. I didn't read the OP that way.

She absolutely thought she had to run. The point of the post was to determine if there was any remedy if ump thought it was done on purpose which they can do in some situations.
 
Dec 10, 2015
845
63
Chautauqua County
I see now. I guess what threw me was that you posted "runners" took off, as in more than the runner on third, which led me to question the question. At an 18U level, this is unacceptable. I'm pretty sure whoever else is reading this is thinking it's unacceptable at the 12U level, which it is but then it's more on the base coaches. Looking for a positive side, I'm hoping the following runners didn't take off until after they saw the play unfolding, which would be good baserunning and advancing on the play. I can't imagine all 3 runners thinking they had to go on the drop.
Thanks for clarifying this.
 

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