Two scenarios from today:

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Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,855
113
Scenario #1

Runner on 1st with two outs. Ball hit to the out field on a line and it hits the portable fence at or near the bottom of the fence. Fielder puts hands up as she runs out for ball. She reaches down and pulls ball out and shows it. Umpire is on the run out but does not signal ball out of play. Runner scores and batter/runner doesn't know what to do. So, kind of timid getting to second. Coach for offense comes out shouting time out. 3B coach is calling runner to third. Offensive coach is now standing at 3B in play and yelling at umpire still in the field. Throw now goes to 3B. Runner slows down since the coach is in the way. Runner tagged out.

The plate umpire points at the coach and yells dead ball immediately when the throw went to 3rd. This got heated.

Scenario #2:

Runners on 1st, 2nd and 3rd with one out. Line drive deep and diving catch. Runner at 1st does not tag up. Runner at 2nd and 3rd do. OF jumps in and throws the ball back in fast. Everyone on defense is screaming 1st. Runners from 3rd easily scores. Runner that was on 2nd briefly stops at 3rd but then takes off for home. Runner on 1st gets into run down but never retouches 1st base. Infielders do not touch 1st. Other runners have scored before the out at first is recorded when the defensive 2B tags runner. Coach is yelling runs do not count since runner at 1st did not tag up and out of that runner is 3rd out of inning. Now, does it matter? Again, this got heated even though the Umpire did an outstanding job of trying to explain it.

So, what were the outcomes and why?
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
Offensive or defensive coach is yelling time out and running onto field? If no one could verify the ball went under the fence then you have a live ball and runners are free to advance. Coach running onto the field yelling time and getting into the middle of a play probably just bought themselves a trip to the parking lot.

Sit 2, yes any runs made before the put out of the runner who did not tag stand. That is a timing play not a force play.
 
Sep 14, 2014
56
6
If a nonforced runner missed home plate with 2 outs and a runner scores behind her before the appeal, would this also be a timing play and the run would count?
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
If a nonforced runner missed home plate with 2 outs and a runner scores behind her before the appeal, would this also be a timing play and the run would count?

In that situation, no. If a preceding runner is called out on appeal for the 3rd out, no trailing runner can score.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,855
113
Offensive or defensive coach is yelling time out and running onto field? If no one could verify the ball went under the fence then you have a live ball and runners are free to advance. Coach running onto the field yelling time and getting into the middle of a play probably just bought themselves a trip to the parking lot.


^^^^ This was the offensive coach and it should have been embarrassing for him. First, as you said, it isn't enough for a fielder to raise their hands. The Umpire has to verify. So, this Umpire was running out when the fielder raised the ball. So, no call and the ball was live. The Coach running out on the field screaming Time Out was running out on a live ball situation. BTW, the Coach can't call time. It is a request that any Umpire may or may not grant. So, now in this play we have a Coach interfering with a ball in play. I agree with Comp that this coach should have been tossed and it got heated. This jerk, and there is no other way to say it, kept saying that he called time out. The Plate Umpire was on this and when that Coach interfered with that play, the Plate had that. Wow, just WOW is all I can say on this one.

Sit 2, yes any runs made before the put out of the runner who did not tag stand. That is a timing play not a force play.

You bet and this Umpire was trying to get the Coach to understand that. No matter how many times the Umpire tried to get him to understand that the guy simple refused to listen. The Coach was so adamant that the runner did not tag up from 1st.
 
Aug 18, 2013
91
6
Cannonball you weren't in Collinsville by chance this weekend??

We had a similar play against my DD's team.

2 outs. Runners on 1st and 2nd. Batter hits a single to right. One run scores (runner at second). RF throws to our first baseman. The girl that hit the single rounds first and gets a little to far and gets tagged, but is called safe (bad call). While this is happening the runner that was at first scores, but the tag play happened before she crossed. Our coach appeals the play at first and the HPU had a better look and they call her out at first, but they counted the second run. The umps said that since the 3rd out was on the appeal the run scores before the out was officially recorded.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
Cannonball you weren't in Collinsville by chance this weekend??

We had a similar play against my DD's team.

2 outs. Runners on 1st and 2nd. Batter hits a single to right. One run scores (runner at second). RF throws to our first baseman. The girl that hit the single rounds first and gets a little to far and gets tagged, but is called safe (bad call). While this is happening the runner that was at first scores, but the tag play happened before she crossed. Our coach appeals the play at first and the HPU had a better look and they call her out at first, but they counted the second run. The umps said that since the 3rd out was on the appeal the run scores before the out was officially recorded.

To start, that is not an appeal, but an umpire simply looking for more information.

AFA the scoring of R2, if the actual tag of R3(BR) was executed prior to R2 reaching the plate, the run should not have scored. When the ruling occurred is irrelevant in this case.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,855
113
Cannonball you weren't in Collinsville by chance this weekend??

We had a similar play against my DD's team.

2 outs. Runners on 1st and 2nd. Batter hits a single to right. One run scores (runner at second). RF throws to our first baseman. The girl that hit the single rounds first and gets a little to far and gets tagged, but is called safe (bad call). While this is happening the runner that was at first scores, but the tag play happened before she crossed. Our coach appeals the play at first and the HPU had a better look and they call her out at first, but they counted the second run. The umps said that since the 3rd out was on the appeal the run scores before the out was officially recorded.

Yes, I was in Collinsville. What age group did your dd play? I think one of these was a 14U (could have been 16U) and I know the other was a 12U.
 
Last edited:
Aug 18, 2013
91
6
To start, that is not an appeal, but an umpire simply looking for more information.

AFA the scoring of R2, if the actual tag of R3(BR) was executed prior to R2 reaching the plate, the run should not have scored. When the ruling occurred is irrelevant in this case.

Me and another dad had a conversation with the umps after the game about why they called it that way. They kept saying we need to look at the rule on appeals. Which was kind of funny because he said it was based on the time of the appeal. I replied to him "you cant have the coach running on the field during a live play when the call happened".

We kept going back to if they made the correct call would the run have scored. Of course they said no. They either couldnt put the dots together or they did :). What do we know we are just dads.
 
Aug 18, 2013
91
6
Yes, I was in Collinsville. What age group did your dd play? I think one of these was a 14U (could have been 16U) and I know the other was a 12U.

We play 14u. My DD is still on the IR with a PARS injury. When she plays it hurts. When she doesnt play she is fine. She also pitches so the team is down to 2 pitchers. We have another on the IR with UCL in her elbow over stretched causing pain in the shoulder. Shoulder was compensating for the elbow so her labrum might be messed up as well. So the team is playing with 9 because its hard to find a pickup player during this time of the year.

It would be interesting to see what coach it was. I could see a couple of them doing it with some of the teams we play against:)
 

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