Safe Call With No Tag -- Then out.

This is from another web site. I did not witness the play. I'm doing a copy and paste.

Runner comes home on a tag play with less than 2 outs. Runner eludes the catcher swing tag with back door slide. Blue signals AND yells safe. Runner gets up and begins to walk back to dugout. Defensive coach yells tag her, blue then calls the runner out. Thoughts?

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I asked the poster if the offensive coach questioned the umpire. This was his response.

We questioned the ump-he said he signaled and yelled safe, no tag. I told him I didn't hear no tag, he said doesn't matter the signal overrides everything. I then said safe is safe then, and he said no because your player never touched the plate. I told him every player looks for the safe sign and when they see it they presume they are safe, he said unless they didn't touch the base (you can see how this conversation became very circular).
UIC said call was correct and excellent mechanics. Every ump on the field said that is the way to call the play. My thing then ASA needs to change how that is called, you can't have players guessing am I really safe or kinda safe.

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What is the correct umpire mechanics in this situation? Shouldn't it be no call made seeing as how the catcher did not tag the runner and the runner did not tag the plate?

Safe means safe. If the runner was not tagged and did not touch the plate, nothing has happened so how could there be a call? Not really any different than a D3K when the umpire does not call the out.

My Brother umpired a lot. He always said that when he saw a potential close play, he would stick his thumbs into his waist band. In that way, he could not signal too fast. Then, let the play develop. Never vocalize a play until that play is finished. So, if a runner is not out but has not tagged the plate, you don't vocalize anything. Player should then know that the play is still live.

The safe signal is correct for the missed tag. The runner is still required to touch the plate and was correctly called out on appeal. He probably should not have yelled safe, no tag and the safe signal would have been appropriate. As I already stated, the runner must still touch the plate and should be aware they haven't. They are still subject to appeal.

Comp said:

The safe signal is correct for the missed tag. The runner is still required to touch the plate and was correctly called out on appeal. He probably should not have yelled safe, no tag and the safe signal would have been appropriate. As I already stated, the runner must still touch the plate and should be aware they haven't. They are still subject to appeal.

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The safe signal seems counter-intuitive. If the runner feels they've touched the plate and the umpire signals safe there is no reason for them to go back and re-touch the plate. To me the no call lets everyone know the play has not been completed. Is there an explanation for this mechanic being used?

A play has been made on a runner, they are either safe or they are out. A call has to be made and there are only 2 signals, safe and out. If the umpire does not make a call he has tipped the defense to the runner not touching the plate and the umpire should never tip either team to infractions. Once a runner has passed a base they are assumed to have touched it until properly appealed. Again, a play was made on the runner and a call has to be made. The tag was missed, the runner passed the plate and is assumed to have touched it and the call is safe based on those facts. The defense noticed the runner had not touched the plate and an appeal was made resulting in the runner being called out on appeal. Nothing was incorrect in the umpires call, other than I personally would not have verbally called safe. I probably would have given the safe signal and called no tag.

BTW, this is nothing new for ASA/NFHS/ISF ball. This mechanic has been in place for years and as Comp explained is accurate by rule and prescribed mechanics

It sounds like the prescribed mechanics were used but the verbal safe call really muddied the waters. I umpired baseball for years (quite a while back) and the proper mechanic in that situation at that time was no call as the runner was not yet safe (had not touched the base) or out (had not been tagged). The umpire was instructed to remain in place to make a call without an indication of safe or out which was intended to "tip off" BOTH teams that the play was not complete.

mmeece said:

It sounds like the prescribed mechanics were used but the verbal safe call really muddied the waters. I umpired baseball for years (quite a while back) and the proper mechanic in that situation at that time was no call as the runner was not yet safe (had not touched the base) or out (had not been tagged). The umpire was instructed to remain in place to make a call without an indication of safe or out which was intended to "tip off" BOTH teams that the play was not complete.

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Different game, different rules

I probably would have given the safe signal and called no tag.

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If you call "No tag." Who has not tagged? The plate by runner or the runner by the defensive player? Both must "tag" something. I can see players and coaches being confused by the mechanic, even though it's correct by rule.

Everything happens in an instant on a banger like that. Unless the players have an absolute understanding of the umpiring mechanics they can easily be confused.