How do you define "making an attempt to go to second"?

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Feb 14, 2014
160
16
This regards 10u LL. We were playing a very close game last night. The other team's runner hit a single which our SS fielded and threw a bit high to first which made our first baseman have to leap to catch. The runner crosses first, turns left, and takes two steps towards second. She turns around to get back on the bag, but before she does, our 1B tags her in the stomach. FU calls her out. The other manager (the league VP) argues that his runner didn't make an attempt to go to second. The FU changes the call to safe. I went out to argue the call to no avail.

So, how would you define making an attempt? To me, what she did was different than running in a straight line through second and then turning a 180 to the left and heading back to the bag. This runner was completely facing second and then turned back to first.

We ended up losing the game by 1 run...
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
There is no requirement of which way the runner turns as they return to 1st base. As long as the umpire does not judge they actually made any type of move to advance to 2nd they may return to 1st without liability to be put out. As for changing the call, wasnt there, didnt see play and have no idea what the coaches argument was to the umpire to get him to reverse his call.
 
Nov 1, 2013
62
8
haven't done LL in decades, but using my NFHS rule set for my high school game...."a batter-runner overruns first base after touching it and returns directly to the base" is not out. Rule 8.8.9

Judgment should be based on understanding and seeing the "returns directly to the base." If batter-runner moves towards the next base...judgment could be she has made an attempt.

Umpire judgment...LL umpires sometimes lack the experience, training, etc. to fully embrace the situation.
 
Jun 11, 2013
2,619
113
comp will have the best answer, but to me it's any step or movement that the umpire takes as a movement towards second base. In this case I would call her out. Just simply turning left instead of right after over running first is not an attempt, but a jab or real step towards the base is.
 
Jun 11, 2013
2,619
113
unfortunately in LL it's often the coach who yells and scares the kid umpire the most who gets the call.
 
Nov 29, 2009
2,975
83
I would think if the field ump initially called her out, he assumed she made a move to 2nd, and then was encouraged to change his call. ;)

My guess for the call reversal. The coach argued "She never crossed the foul line." Sold the umpire one of the lesser known myths of the game.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
This regards 10u LL. We were playing a very close game last night. The other team's runner hit a single which our SS fielded and threw a bit high to first which made our first baseman have to leap to catch. The runner crosses first, turns left, and takes two steps towards second. She turns around to get back on the bag, but before she does, our 1B tags her in the stomach. FU calls her out. The other manager (the league VP) argues that his runner didn't make an attempt to go to second. The FU changes the call to safe. I went out to argue the call to no avail.

So, how would you define making an attempt? To me, what she did was different than running in a straight line through second and then turning a 180 to the left and heading back to the bag. This runner was completely facing second and then turned back to first.

We ended up losing the game by 1 run...

Any move which indicates the runner may attempt to advance. It is hard to give a specific, chiseled in stone definition, but if that umpire called the runner out, he believed the runner made an attempt.

For years, when covering this is a clinic or school, the umpires are instructed that if they see a movement (could be a turn of the shoulder, couple steps, etc.) that tells their mind s/he needs to move into position for a possible play at 2B, the runner made a move to advance to 2B.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,481
Members
21,445
Latest member
Bmac81802
Top