Arm Speed Drills

hal, could you elaberate on your thoughts about the eliptical arm circle.

The desire to throw with authority is in every student. The ability to do that is also in every student. The ability to bring all that out in a student is definitely NOT in every instructor.

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So what you're telling us is that if a pitcher has the desire to throw that hard you can get ANY kid to throw 65 mph? All she has to do it want it and work for it. Sorry Hal, I just can't buy that. That is why the Finch's, Abbot's and Ueno's are tops in the world. Not many can hit those speeds consistently.

The same thing holds true for baseball. There are only a few who can hit that 100+mph mark and I'm sure these guys are getting the very best instruction there is out there.

Hal, I know I can get a pitcher's max potential out of a her if she's willing to work. But getting any more than her body is capable of is something that nature does play a part in.

I have two girls right now who are very similar in build and are about 6 months apart age-wise. The younger one is slightly thinner and out-throws the older one by a good margin. I've been working with both girls for the last two years using various drills to try and get the most out of them. Both work hard on their own time and want to pitch. Can someone else get more out of them?? Maybe... But I do know that every hard working kid I've worked with has gotten faster after spending time with me.

halskinner said:

Does she have a slight bend in the elbow all the way through the circle? If the arm is straight and the elbow is locked, she can speed up the arm with that little bend. It will also keep her from getting hurt.

Also, the arm 'circle' really isnt a circle. It's more like an oval as the body is moving forward. If the stride is strong enough and fast enough, it takes next to zero effort to bring the ball up to 12:00. A lot of folks havent fogured that out yet. The slower the stride, the harder it is to bring the ball up in front.

How strong and fast is her forward momentum / stride speed? That is probably your culprit that is holding her speed down.

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Completely agree! My daughter has been struggling with this. Not sure why but her lower body began to become an anchor...especially her drag....it was heavy. It really affected her this year during summerball. Really had trouble with her control and had lost zip on the ball. I researched some training aids to help and found a good one but won't say what as another member was offended that I was "promoting a product".

When I hear about wanting to "increase arm speed"........The question begs "what kind of arm speed"........IE, making the arm go around in a circle as fast as possible?.........Or making the internal rotators work quickly and efficiently........

As I discussed in the "I/R in the classroom" thread, maintaining the axis of rotation at the shoulder joint creates a constant WIDE axis that Does not/Cannot create angular acceleration through the delivery phase..........Angular acceleration, coupled with proper leg drive and TIMING, is where velocity is created........

The addition of WIDE ARC speed in the circle pays back in a 1:1 ratio........Asking the LARGE MUSCLES in the shoulder complex to "go faster" simply creates tension in the complex of large muscles in the shoulder..........Asking the smaller fast-twitch reflexes in the lower arm is EXPLOITING the laws of physics and creates angular acceleration.........And pays back in a much higher ratio of "bio-mechanics to velocity"...........

In other words, trying to create the highest possible ARM CIRCLE SPEED is not how "fast pitchers throw fast"............and in fact, just causes more wear and tear on the shoulder complex in general.

It is the precise timing of shrinking the radius of the axis of rotation from upper arm circle, to the lower arm rotation, to wrist, to fingers that created "whip", or sudden angular acceleration in the last quadrant of the circle that determines/creates velocity........And of course leg drive and resistance from ground force reaction is as big a factor as I/R........

That is not to say that a "slow arm circle" can produce as much velocity as a faster arm circle.......Of course there is a correlation of arm CIRCLE speed and velocity......TO SOME DEGREE.....1:1 ratio......But understand that closer the ball is to the axis of rotation (internal rotation of the upper arm, forearm, and wrist) the more angular acceleration occurs......And the high the ratio of return......It's simply physics.........

IMO, a quick read of this post will go farther toward increasing speed then trying to get "big muscles to act like small ones".........

"Catching the Whip"

Board Member, great explanation. One of the best posts that have made it to this Message Board.

Sparky Guy said:

So what you're telling us is that if a pitcher has the desire to throw that hard you can get ANY kid to throw 65 mph? All she has to do it want it and work for it. Sorry Hal, I just can't buy that. That is why the Finch's, Abbot's and Ueno's are tops in the world. Not many can hit those speeds consistently.

The same thing holds true for baseball. There are only a few who can hit that 100+mph mark and I'm sure these guys are getting the very best instruction there is out there.

Hal, I know I can get a pitcher's max potential out of a her if she's willing to work. But getting any more than her body is capable of is something that nature does play a part in.

I have two girls right now who are very similar in build and are about 6 months apart age-wise. The younger one is slightly thinner and out-throws the older one by a good margin. I've been working with both girls for the last two years using various drills to try and get the most out of them. Both work hard on their own time and want to pitch. Can someone else get more out of them?? Maybe... But I do know that every hard working kid I've worked with has gotten faster after spending time with me.

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Sparky, I don't agree with Hal either. I have some tiny kids that can really bring it, and I have some larger ones that cannot.
I noticed in the younger ones that throw really hard their movements are always quick. Slower ones have slower movements, like they are pitching in quick sand. It seems some kids have naturally better quick flex muscles and flexibility than others. They are also more comfortable feeling their body move fast. Some kids don't like the fast motion of their body or losing balance and control. They prefer to stay slow and steady.

As far as if they have the desire to do it, then they can. Well yes, and no. Only if that desire is followed by all the hard work it takes to get there. All my students have the desire to throw hard. But not all of them want to march their little butts out into the yard and practice.

Just going to share something that I have noticed helped my DD quite a bit. DD has only been pitching seriously for about 3 months now and I noticed quite a bit of fluctuation in her speed during our practices. I didn't want to discourage her by my "opinion" when we were practicing by telling her she was pitching lazy or "slow". What I decided to do is purchase a radar gun of some sort so I had factual information to share with her. I know many rave about the pocket radar, but I couldn't quite figure out how I would catch her and use this at the same time. I came across the radar unit that you tie to you glove and it was just about as inexpensive as a radar unit can get. I bought it and it has done WONDERS. First off, this gives "Dad" the information he needs to be able to accurately determine whether or not DD's heart is in her workouts. Second, it gives DD goals as far as how hard she is throwing. We went from average of 28-30 with a high of 32 2 weeks ago to a new average of 32-33 with a high of 39 in 2 weks. Its quite simple.... they want to see results... or in this case "hear" them. I call out the speed of every strike. I don't care how accurate this thing actually is... all I know is it's easy to use, convenient enough to use for EVERY practice session and just enough motivation for DD to want to work harder to beat last weeks high every week.

We have an inning workout every practice and then a free for all where she shoots for a high speed during each practice. I know this may not work for all, but it has certainly helped my DD. I think the thing cost only $70, so it's worth the chance to try it, especially for the beginners. Even if it's not dead on accurate with a true speed gun...it's close enough relative to your dd's pitches in a workout to give you and her feedback as far as how hard she is throwing.

I taught both my daughters using the Magic Johnson/Larry Bird system. Some people have more athletic talent (generally greater proprioception like Magic Johnson) and other don't. The learning curves are different but the less athletic (Larry Bird) that consistently keeps trying new things and putting in the effort will eventually intersect at some point. This doesn't mean they are as equally good at certain things but are equally effective overall.

The general problem with the naysayer route is they place too much emphasis on the gap and make it too big. No, not everyone will hit 65-70 but the middle statistical 50% will hit 60-65 with proper instruction and effort. My daughter had horrible overhand mechanics at 10. I even forced her to use the elbow straightening training tool for a few months to clean up her motion. Now, at 14, she has been clocked by radar at two different events at 64 mph. She's a Larry Bird. Her sister was a Magic Johnson.

Hope that helps.

This is an old post but thanks for bringing it up again. Good info here.

Nice refresher information.