To swim or not to swim glove hand

BoardMember said:

That's not really what I said.........What I said was "keying in" on unnecessarily correcting the glove hand waving off the power line may not be the best thing for whip mechanics.........

I see pitching coaches do this all the time............And have heard SEVERAL comments on this board from well intentioned instructors telling pitchers/parents/coaches they have to get that front side "wave out" corrected in order for proper mechanics/balance to occur........This is simply wrong........And to me is much like an umpire "inserting himself" in a game where he doesn't have to......

Bottom line is the "reverse circle" of the lead arm, which creates kinetic counter balance/stretch can take many different paths........From wide to narrow........From flatter to more vertical.........



This point is it isn't/shouldn't be an "UNTEACH"...........

Lisa Fernandez (like Cat) uses a fairly narrow "reverse circle" for her kinetic counter balance/stretch........

Michele Smith is a "waver", with a wider move...........So is Hollowell.........

And even Mr. Skinner is a bit of a "waver" for that matter.........

And watch his rear shoulder suddenly appear as it "realigns" the complex during the I/R motion.......

The front/rear shoulders open/stretch somewhat in order for the associated contractions to be MOST efficient/effective in the whipping motion...........

I guess my whole point is that IF our members better understand WHY the "reverse circle" is important, not to just to counter balance......but to create stretch in the sequence.......And that reverse circle of the front arm/shoulder takes on MANY DIFFERENT forms..........They might not "coach away" stuff that needs to happen to create velocity in the windmill motion.........

When I see kids that struggle to create velocity.........I often look to see if they are just rotating the entire "complex" (slow/cumbersome).......Or maybe just not using the shoulders at all.........And by that I DON'T mean "complex rotation"...........I mean opening and closing WITHOUT necessarily "rotating"..........

Or properly creating the independent but sync'd stretch/contraction sequence that delivers power/velocity down the power line........Which INCLUDES some form of front side reverse circle........Wide....Narrow.....Flat....Vertical.......Or otherwise...........

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BoardMember said:

By the way......This brings up ONE MORE GOOD POINT.........

The next time you "key in" on making sure the glove and front shoulder isn't "waving out" from the power line.........You may want to rethink what you doing to the pitchers "whip" mechanics..........

Funny........no one ever said anything to Bill about his glove "waving" out from the powerline........

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Screwball said:

If you don't swim at all you end up with that dreaded slap of the thigh.

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SoftSocDad said:

Is there a consensus or near-consensus on what how swimming is defined?

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knightsb said:

DD really swims her glove hand. Does this need to be corrected or not?

Here is what I have found on the Model Pitcher's Thread. The number next to the name is the post number from the thread:

No Swim:
Jenny Finch (2)
Yukiko Ueno (3,46,61,62,66,67)
Val Wood (9)
Sara Pauly (11)
Cat Osterman (20-27,47)
Paige Hall (30,31)
Daniel Lawrie (37-42)
Monica Abbott (48)
Lisa Fernandez (53,65,148)
Lori ? (54)
Keira (57)
Constance Brandenburg (98)
Paige Arnold (100)
Dallas Escobedo (127, 128)


Swim:
Lauren Bay (4)
Lauren Delaney (10, slight)
Amanda Scarborough (12)
Kenzie Fowler (17,96)
Michelle Smith (29)
Dana ? (43)
? Booth (45)
Alicia ? (49, 59)
? Williams (50)
? ? Utah (51)
? Selden (52)
Lisa D (55)
? Kerr (56)
Jennie Finch (58,63)
Angela Tincher (60, slight)
Jordan Trujillo (97)
Shelby Babcock (99)
Ellen Renfroe (122)
Hannah Rogers (130)
Jolene Henderson (132)
Chelsea Thomas (133)
Whitney Canion (134)


There is another thread titled "Windmill - Arm position at 3/4 down position" where IR and the front shoulder are discussed. Posts 31, 32, 34, 43, and 44 are very good.


excerpt (post 44 from the above thread):



So is swimming the glove bad, or is it a no teach? What is the consensus?

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halskinner said:

With that great exaggerated lean to the left, Lisa is throwing either a curveball or a down and out to a RH batter. The glove also appears to be helping in that effort.

If I am throwing to my camers, I am throwing with a wiffle ball. With that stride that short, I am demonstrating a softball submarine wind up, a very quick step style pitch.

Both of these things are not normal leap and drag mechanics.

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knightsb said:

I was told that if you stand next to a wall and pitch and your glove hand swings out far enough to hit the wall, then you are swimming your glove hand.

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