Model Pitchers

FiveFrameSwing said:

It sounds like you don't have an answer to the question. That's okay ... simply say that you don't understand how Ueno can have such short levers and still hurl pitches at 70mph.

Just because 'your' model of pitching doesn't explain why someone like Ueno can be so accomplished, shouldn't be a reason to attempt to scare people away from analyzing real data.

You've clearly punted on trying to explain how someone with such small levers can throw so fast.

The challenge is out there to others. How is it that Ueno, despite being short and having relatively small levers, can reach pitch speeds that place her as one of the sports top female pitchers?

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I'll take as shot at this but I'll be the first to admit that I'm just another know-nothing bucket dad. I do like a few things I see in Uneo's mechanics and although nobody can deny her success, I just know my kids would be on season-ending IR if they tried to emulate her. I'm also too much of a internet knucklehead to figure out how to quote two videos on two separate posts so my observations are based on the two separate videos you posted of her on the previous page.

-the pre-windup bend & crouch: I'm sure this is designed to maximize her push off of the rubber and she certainly does generate a great push but it's ultimately likely to generate back issues for her. Of course if you retire with a bad back after winning an olympic gold medal for your team it may have been worth it.

-3 o'clock to 9 o'clock: This is the part I like best about her mechanics, she looks like she gets into great position from her push to the point just before her release.

-hips closing and release: In the video where the camera's facing her it looks like her arm is significantly outside of the core of her body. She gets incredible whip based on the flubbery recoil her arm does afterwards but it would seem to me like she's putting a lot of stress on her elbow and shoulder and not getting the full benefit of her body's core.

- stride leg & finish: She points the toe of her stride leg directly at home plate instead of at a 45 degree angle. It looks like that's putting a lot of stress on both her ankle and knee and maybe the reason she appears to be falling off to her right after the pitch. It could have something to do with the specific pitch thrown because she's obviously got some sick left to right break on it but I think getting a young pitcher to do that would just reinforce bad habits that would affect all pitches.

Well that's all I've got, like I said I have two non-paying pitching students so I won't take any offense to anyone picking apart my analysis.

FiveFrameSwing said:

It sounds like you don't have an answer to the question. That's okay ... simply say that you don't understand how Ueno can have such short levers and still hurl pitches at 70mph.

Just because 'your' model of pitching doesn't explain why someone like Ueno can be so accomplished, shouldn't be a reason to attempt to scare people away from analyzing real data.

You've clearly punted on trying to explain how someone with such small levers can throw so fast.

The challenge is out there to others. How is it that Ueno, despite being short and having relatively small levers, can reach pitch speeds that place her as one of the sports top female pitchers?

Click to expand...

My guess, and its only a guess. Superior core strength.

FiveFrameSwing said:

Monica Abbott:

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Thoughts on how important is the "closing of the hips" just prior to release to generate more power to the pitch? Seems that all elite pitchers close at least a little bit before release.

FFS - excellent thread

chinamigarden said:

My guess, and its only a guess. Superior core strength.

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Combined with flexibility.

Ueno is just over 5'8", a full inch taller than Tincher (shown in the clip above hers). Her lever is not THAT short! Lisa Fernandez was able to break 70 with ease during her prime, and she was only 5'6".

That said, Ueno's arm whip is tremendous. I think the most telling point in her slow motion sticky can be seen at the 0.02 mark, where you only see her elbow peeking from the side of her body and nothing else - that's Tim Lincecum level flexibility!

Moreover, Ueno's motion allows her to involve her entire torso in the whipping action (again like Lincecum); her forearm is just the last link in a multi-link chain event. If we compared pitching to the action of a trebuchet - then relative to more conventional setups, Ueno's trebuchet has an extra link in the strut that allows her to further increase the whipping effect during launch. In this context, her broad shoulders and obviously strong core muscles play significant roles in creating the speed we see.

Whether her approach is potentially harmful to a young girl's development is a different topic altogether. I think the answer is probably - it depends on the young girl's natural build and aptitude. My guess is that Ueno wouldn't be where she is today if she had learned to pitch using Finch's motion.

For the record …

Ueno has been clocked at 121 km/h … which is just over 75mph.

I have Ueno's height at 173cm … which translates to just over 5.6ft (5.67ft), or 5' 8".

before she became the household name of today, I saw Ueno when I was doing clinics in the Philippines during the world asian games. I remember watching her warm up and throw in games and thought to myself, "Give me that girl for 2 months and USA would never beat her again". Turns out they didn't need me to beat them. LOL

As I've told this story before, some of you may recall: in 2005 Japan beat the USA in their precious World Cup. Ueno shut them down pretty good. The next year, USA had some of the US men's team come to some games and "pick" Ueno's change up to know when it's coming. They did and USA beat Ueno and Japan. Japan was convinced USA was using the ESPN cameras to study and get the goods on Ueno and she was not even brought over on the touring team in 2007, before the Olympics. Then, in seclusion, Japan did some tweaks to Ueno's delivery and presto, USA lost the gold. Coincidence?

Bill

FFS--thanks so much. This is exactly the thing. Do you have any side view shots of Lori Harrigan from her front (1B view)? Her whole mechanic is exemplary, from what I can see.

Dave D said:

FFS--thanks so much. This is exactly the thing. Do you have any side view shots of Lori Harrigan from her front (1B view)? Her whole mechanic is exemplary, from what I can see.

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DD ... I don't have such a video handy. If someone PM's me a link of a Youtube clip, or similar video source, then GIFs can be created. When sending such a PM, it helps to include the 'start time' of the particular video segment that you are interested in ... an example would be a start time 3:15 out of 12min video.

Here is a series of stills.