Peel Drop

I noticed her step, too. Yes, it looks weird, but I can't really see her feet. It is international play and could be an exhibition game. Or maybe she is warming up.

Tojo Look...........I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about how MY STUDENT of over 10 years throws this pitch........



There is absolutely NO ROLL over the top of this ball..........She attains forward spin BECAUSE OF WHEN her thumb releases from the ball and how her finger pressure influences the spin as her thumb releases from contact with the ball.........

I'll repeat........IT'S PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to roll over the top and down the front of a softball with your fingers in contact AND CAUSE IT TO GO FOWARD......

You can "Peel up the back........"Cut" up the back......"Slice" up the back.......All to a point of approx. a 45 degree forward vertical angle up the back........But at no time will your fingers be "on top" of the ball during release........

You can "get it turning over" with I/R depending on WHEN your thumb releases from the ball......And how your finger pressure manipulates THE BACK (not the top) of the ball and imparts spin...........But the fingers will NEVER roll over the top and down the front of the ball............

The hand can continue AFTER RELEASE to pronate (turn over) and face the ground........Because that's the direction it wants to travel to enhance the influence of forward spin on the ball FROM THE BACK OF THE BALL.........But the ball is long gone before your hand reaches pronation facing the ground........

Here's what I know. ANYONE who believes the hand is in contact with the ball during the roll over THE TOP process to cause FORWARD SPIN has never EVER pitched.......

Ok, so that's enough of the nonsense.........Both about "roll over-turn over" and how MY student throws her drop.........

I have literally hundreds of students and former students who all throw drop the same way......With the same result........And none of them "literally" roll the fingers over the top of the ball while IN CONTACT........And as you stated, agreeing with me, all of them can throw the pitch as fast as any other pitch IF/When they want to......

As far as the term "roll peel"........I stated I don't have a problem with the term........And it's really impressive that Nancy Evans calls it that........I guess.......

Tojo has introduced a "new term".......A "roll peel".............Tojo........I don't have a problem with that term......But it is simply a "roll drop" the way I know it........

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I'm assuming she calls it that to clarify that ALTHOUGH IT FEELS LIKE your rolling over the ball, your actually PEELING UP THE BACK in a motion that is NON-TRADITIONAL to the straight "peel drop" mechanics of thumb/fingers VERTICAL to the ground and parallel to the target line at release................How ironic that she adds "peel" to clarify whats really going on........

Like I said......To ME........That IS a "roll" or "turn over" drop......For the reasons stated directly above........I guess I've never had to add the word "peel" to the roll over drop because I know there is literally NO SUCH THING as a "roll over drop" literally........And I'd never "fool" my students into thinking that's what actually happens........They are simply using I/R mechanics to impart forward spin on the ball through adjusted release points, pressure points and orientations.........

And YES Mr. River.......We do agree on the mechanics..........And the differences.......

Best Regards..........

Boardmember, You are the one who posted the roll over drop in your 1st post on this thread and now you say there is "NO SUCH THING" as a "roll over drop" literally. And I never said the hand comes over the top and down the front of the ball. That must have been another poster. I agree with you on that point. Nancy Evans also teaches a roll over drop in addition to the roll over-turn over peel. I'll let the others decide if your student is pulling up and over the top of the ball. I have watched it numerous times and her hand certainly appears to be horizontal and on top of the ball right at the point the red line appears. You state that anyone who believes the hand is in contact with the ball during the roll over the top has never pitched. Then why would there be so much emphasis by pitchers like Strombacher(Fla.) and Danielle Spaulding (UNC)to snap over and down. I agree the hand does not come in front of the ball because as you snap down your hand leaves the path or plane to the target.There drop balls have a sharper drop.

Gentlemen...grap a ball and turn it over. If your hand is on top the ball (parallel to the ground) and from this position your fingers are still influencing the ball that ball is going almost straight into the ground.

On the roll over which finger(s) have the most effect. Is the ring finger involved in imparting spin? What about pinkie?

Lisa is throwing a down & out. This is a drop curve. This is NOT a turn over / roll over drop.

Think whatever you would like about what the pitch is called wherever you are at. THAT motion release and release point is going to produce down and out spin. 4 to 10 spin if you will.

BoardMember Can you give us some drill to learn the DROP...Call it whatever you want lets just say drop ball. Also BM thanks for all of your insight on pitching, the post you have made on this board have helped me understand the mechanic better than anything I have read or video I have watched. Thanks Again Dan

BoardMember said:

Tojo Look...........I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about how MY STUDENT of over 10 years throws this pitch........

There is absolutely NO ROLL over the top of this ball..........She attains forward spin BECAUSE OF WHEN her thumb releases from the ball and how her finger pressure influences the spin as her thumb releases from contact with the ball.........

I'll repeat........IT'S PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to roll over the top and down the front of a softball with your fingers in contact AND CAUSE IT TO GO FOWARD......

You can "Peel up the back........"Cut" up the back......"Slice" up the back.......All to a point of approx. a 45 degree forward vertical angle up the back........But at no time will your fingers be "on top" of the ball during release........

You can "get it turning over" with I/R depending on WHEN your thumb releases from the ball......And how your finger pressure manipulates THE BACK (not the top) of the ball and imparts spin...........But the fingers will NEVER roll over the top and down the front of the ball............

The hand can continue AFTER RELEASE to pronate (turn over) and face the ground........Because that's the direction it wants to travel to enhance the influence of forward spin on the ball FROM THE BACK OF THE BALL.........But the ball is long gone before your hand reaches pronation facing the ground........

Here's what I know. ANYONE who believes the hand is in contact with the ball during the roll over THE TOP process to cause FORWARD SPIN has never EVER pitched.......

Ok, so that's enough of the nonsense.........Both about "roll over-turn over" and how MY student throws her drop.........

I have literally hundreds of students and former students who all throw drop the same way......With the same result........And none of them "literally" roll the fingers over the top of the ball while IN CONTACT........And as you stated, agreeing with me, all of them can throw the pitch as fast as any other pitch IF/When they want to......

As far as the term "roll peel"........I stated I don't have a problem with the term........And it's really impressive that Nancy Evans calls it that........I guess.......



I'm assuming she calls it that to clarify that ALTHOUGH IT FEELS LIKE your rolling over the ball, your actually PEELING UP THE BACK in a motion that is NON-TRADITIONAL to the straight "peel drop" mechanics of thumb/fingers VERTICAL to the ground and parallel to the target line at release................How ironic that she adds "peel" to clarify whats really going on........

Like I said......To ME........That IS a "roll" or "turn over" drop......For the reasons stated directly above........I guess I've never had to add the word "peel" to the roll over drop because I know there is literally NO SUCH THING as a "roll over drop" literally........And I'd never "fool" my students into thinking that's what actually happens........They are simply using I/R mechanics to impart forward spin on the ball through adjusted release points, pressure points and orientations.........

And YES Mr. River.......We do agree on the mechanics..........And the differences.......

Best Regards..........

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I will second what Dan said. Also, what is the grip? THanks

Dear Boardmember,
One of your responders called you "BM" for short- I'm not sure that's a good nickname! I'm surprised that Tojo hasn't called you that!

On the Lisa clip, while it appears she's moving forward with her pivot foot, it's actually sliding across the pitching rubber. It's just the camera angle that makes it appear she's going forward.

Dear BM or tojo,
If the " drop " is caused from lift on the back of the ball, is the " rise " caused by lift on the front of the ball??