Detachment and timing. Is 3:00 absolute?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQz7CKn0SS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W4xzF-Ht_4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5X86nD_WS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnO82r-jVgI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmiG4ji3onQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pNrpi19d7s

If I'm going to use a model to have my students emulate, I'd want them modeling the worlds best mechanics. Its hard to deny that Cat, Ueno, Finch, Abbott, Scarboro, or Tincher (mechanically speaking) are some of the best models.... all of whom will detatch at 3:00

S3... your question is "is 3:00 detatchment an absolute"...
For me as a coach... I'd say yes
I'd also say I realize that not all girls have optimal drive mechanics and have still been able to achieve a high level of success.
My summary of the way I teach is this (in a nutshell)
Gain transferable energy by driving outward explosively and then apply equal and opposite forces in an attempt to transfer that energy into the pitch.
To stick with my theory, I'd want as much potential energy as possible in the drive in order to redirect it through the kinetic chain

I think you need to be very specific by what you consider "detachment". What I look for is when the foot starts moving forward. Often what I see is that the heel comes up, detaching the foot from the rubber and then the foot starts its forward motion. At that point you should have great momentum positioning yourself to apply the brakes.

For me (my observations), detachment at roughly 3:00, if not an absolute to strive for, is pretty darned close to an absolute. Given the vast majority of young pitchers underutilize leg-thrust in their leg-drive (i.e., are stride-dominant rather than thrust-dominant), most detach well after 3:00.

As we are rehashing this topic of detachment and timing along with the recent discussion and review of the "Queen" device I'm curious once again about the ideas raised by jryan about glute vs quad dominance in the thread about Fixing Sprinters Posture... https://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/30687-fixing-sprinters-posture-using-foot-hyperarch-mechanic.html There's video and discussion about this same issue of detachment on page 8. In one of our last sessions with Java this exact issue about detachment and timing came up and it's currently a focus. Having a strong core and hip thrust involved with a good leg push so that the athlete really creates that energy and "glides" off the pitching rubber is what it seems we're after. Given Doug's comments above about stride vs thrust dominance being a big issue (which I agree with) I think we are almost all seeing the same thing and that 2:30 to 3:30 is the ideal Happy Hour for detaching from the rubber.

My question is what's the best way to go from theory to reality in the circle? Currently working on it and open to any and all suggestions that can help with the journey!

coach james said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQz7CKn0SS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W4xzF-Ht_4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5X86nD_WS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnO82r-jVgI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmiG4ji3onQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pNrpi19d7s

If I'm going to use a model to have my students emulate, I'd want them modeling the worlds best mechanics. Its hard to deny that Cat, Ueno, Finch, Abbott, Scarboro, or Tincher (mechanically speaking) are some of the best models.... all of whom will detatch at 3:00

Click to expand...

Agree with you Coach James! Those are some of the best in the world and I certainly can't and would never deny it. That said, and depending on what a pitchers dreams are, hard to deny Jake, Jackie, or Keilani either. Brooke, still young so we shall see but up to this point she has had all the accolades a young pitcher could ever ask for. I would have a very hard time if someone said you shouldn't model yourself after any of them.

I don't want to turn this discussion into a spin versus speed discussion either but at any given time, age for age, I would argue with their mechanics they are equal to or harder than the others mentioned. Jake had tremendous velocity and a killer rise, Ricketts and Jackie threw harder than anyone in college while they were there, and Brooke is on that same track but dominated travel ball, high school ball, etc. Best in the country for her age every year since 6th grade.

Again, not a speed discussion but they optimized their mechanics to throw hard and be successful and better than most.

Lastly, like you, I think Cat is on the list for sure. She is one of my all time favorites and jazzed up to see her in the Olympics. Gonna take Ueno down!! And I love Ueno and her mechanics are IMO in the top 5 of all time. That said, Cat is IMHO different than the others mentioned and if you model Cat you are not modeling Ueno, Finch, Abbott, Tincher, or Scarboro. I know this has been discussed for years on this site and she is just different than the others. She IMO hands down is the best spinner in the world. I would put her up against anyone for spinning the ball and for that I would model her in a second. But if you model her drive you aren't modeling the others. She absolutely drives and puts weight on her drive foot again before she pitches. The others mentioned do not. Different mechanics and you can't be her and also try to be the others. That said, proof that velocity isn't everything!

Good discussion and thanks for posting! Hope to open the minds and thoughts of everyone before we try to create robots out of every pitcher and treat everything as an absolute. That is my intention, more than one way to skin a Cat and we will all serve young pitchers better if we understand that.

Next two posts should help as well.

Thanks for sharing everyone and I will leave it with what BM once said and I will likely misquote this but......IR is absolute, nothing else is!

S3

Cat

Cat, notice the unearthed dirt between the rubber and her second landing and the fact her drive foot "lands" first (should it be landing at all?)?? For the record, I would model any girl after her as she is amazing. But she is not the same as others.

Cat continued

I thought this was an interesting one of Abbott. For the record.....She is the best IMO. Simply the best and my number 1 of all time. I would model her all day long. Yes, she takes a gym step just like she does in games, yes she is on the set of ESPN, yes she is in casual clothes, and yes, she detaches after 3:00. No she doesn't have a rubber but she always steps away from it anyway. Her toe stays in the same place until the very end and well beyond 3:00. Maybe exhausting her push and all the energy until the very end...kinda looks like some of the others I posted to start this thread......

Okay, one more, and this is Blair Luna. She has true 3:00 detachment IMO. She was a pretty darn good pitcher and took Texas to the CWS. She was mentioned in Drive Mechanics as well as a model pitcher.