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h8weakness

Bucket Dad
Jan 9, 2019
35
8
Mishawaka, IN
Hey guys and gals,
I know a few of you had commented on my last post but that post was pretty vague and only had one video... but thank you for your reply.
Here's our situation,
1. DD 12 years old.
2. pitching for about 2.5 years with a couple of coaches who were great but ultimately didn't pan out.
3. She's seeing two coaches now and throwing 3-4 times a week.
Big question now.... am I holding her back because all of the local coaches teach hello elbow?
What are the major issues with her pitch that you all can see.
Mid-season last year she was throwing between 48-52 mph but wasn't hitting her spots consistently.
Now she's throwing 48-50 but becoming more accurate.
No motion pitches in her arsenal yet. really need to learn proper form before we get into all that.
Any help would be greatly appericated.
here are some videos
Thanks in advance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E67MI4ggPR0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KujoIMRgVyA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYls8cxNIco
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Vl89q8wI0
Thanks again!
 
Oct 11, 2010
8,337
113
Chicago, IL
General comment, did not look at videos.

I am DD's pitching coach but we occasionally pay someone and have lessons. School coaches left her alone and she was allowed to pitch.

Between 2 coaches and you and who knows what else you might be causing more harm then good.
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
h8,

The main thing I see, aside from needing a looser arm at release, is... I'd eliminate her bending her back knee prior to going forward. This motion sinks her butt down, I would rather the back leg stay straight and her lean forward on top of the front knee more. So, it's a bend of the waist and bend of the front knee... like a sprinter. The minute that back knee bends, and her butt goes down, pressure is relieved from the front leg and she's not going to push off the rubber as hard. Now, changing this will require her to get her timing reset but when she does, I think you'll see a spike in velocity. You mentioned that she's seeing 2 coaches, do you mean 2 pitching coaches? That's not always a good idea. While there's something to be said for learning all you can from as many sources as you can, the reality is when there is a conflict in what they teach, the student will get confused. It's sad that there isn't a uniformed coaching platform so that all students are taught similarly with safe mechanics but, that's just not gonna happen. There's always going to be some out there who "know better" than everyone else, despite the fact nobody of world class caliber actually pitches that way. And at the end of the day, it's the kid who gets "mis-taught" or is never able to overcome hurdles because of conflicting information. Then again, I don't know if you meant 2 pitching coaches or not. So if you didn't mean that, then disregard!

You also said she's not throwing any movement pitches. While I understand your reasoning here, there is also something to be said for beginning the foundation for pitches. Sometimes it will help kids understand why the DETAILS in the mechanics are important. Sort of like saying, if you don't do THIS, you won't be able to do THAT. Not saying it works for everyone, then then again... NOTHING works for everyone.

Bill
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
Hey guys and gals,
I know a few of you had commented on my last post but that post was pretty vague and only had one video... but thank you for your reply.
Here's our situation,
1. DD 12 years old.
2. pitching for about 2.5 years with a couple of coaches who were great but ultimately didn't pan out.
3. She's seeing two coaches now and throwing 3-4 times a week.

Big question now.... am I holding her back because all of the local coaches teach hello elbow?

Big question answer: Yes you are.

If the local instructors are not willing to get the latest information - and it is readily available - they are not worth you giving them $$$. There is no excuse.

Also like Bill said -does she have TWO pitching coaches? That is not good since no one ever seems to teach the same thing.

My thoughts:
Your willingness to invest in coaches et al is great. Since you are, stop what you are doing and reassess. I don't know your local area well, but it would be better to find the right coach even if it means traveling a couple of hours. Spend your hard-earned money and time and go to ONE good coach, once a month for a single lesson. That would be 1000% better than getting lots of lessons that are teaching poor mechanics.

Even just going out and getting all of Bill's collection of instructional videos and working through it by yourself would be better: Start here: https://houseofpitching.com/videos/ but look on Youtube as well. Lots of content.

What are the major issues with her pitch that you all can see.

Well the attempt to actually pitch Hello Elbow when her body clearly wants to do something different.
Video One: Trying to do what her collection of coaches 'teach'
Video Two: Doing what is much more natural for her. You can see the forearm rotating - it is like a different pitcher.

The good news is that she is athletic and with the right direction she is going to be fine.

I also second Bill's comments: Her arm is too straight and not loose through the whole motion.


No motion pitches in her arsenal yet. really need to learn proper form before we get into all that.

As in she hasn't even tried or been taught yet? Making the ball move and spin is the fun part. Even if she can't make them work quite right yet, after 2 1/2 years she certainly should be working on getting there even with HE instruction. What exactly HAS she been working on? I mean it is better than the 'we have 6 pitches' crowd, but my DD at 10 was trying to make it move.
 
Last edited:

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,132
113
Dallas, Texas
Your DD has got some talent for this.

As to the HE: Look at this picture from the second video. She used IR. The PCs are confusing her. She will not develop.

What is happening is that your DD's mind ("mind" is the whole enchilada...the body, brain, and both nervous systems) are telling her to do IR. Her PC is telling her to do HE.

My DD was doing exactly what yours is doing. I almost ruined my DD by insisting on HE. (In my defense, this was 1995 or so.) Luckily, one day I thought, "What the heck? I'm fighting a losing battle. If she doesn't pitch college, life will go on." Then I shut my mouth, and never mentioned it to her again. It was the best thing I ever did. Her control improved and her velocity shot up.

SO:

Drop the guys you got and find a good PC. If you have to drive, drive. Try to find someone who will see her a couple of times a month. Your DD needs to pitch every week...but she doesn't need to see a PC every week. Seeing a PC every other week or maybe once a month would be fine.
 

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h8weakness

Bucket Dad
Jan 9, 2019
35
8
Mishawaka, IN
Big question answer: Yes you are.

If the local instructors are not willing to get the latest information - and it is readily available - they are not worth you giving them $$$. There is no excuse.

Also like Bill said -does she have TWO pitching coaches? That is not good since no one ever seems to teach the same thing.

My thoughts:
Your willingness to invest in coaches et al is great. Since you are, stop what you are doing and reassess. I don't know your local area well, but it would be better to find the right coach even if it means traveling a couple of hours. Spend your hard-earned money and time and go to ONE good coach, once a month for a single lesson. That would be 1000% better than getting lots of lessons that are teaching poor mechanics.

Even just going out and getting all of Bill's collection of instructional videos and working through it by yourself would be better: Start here: https://houseofpitching.com/videos/ but look on Youtube as well. Lots of content.


1st off.... thank you all for your replies!

Yes, currently she is seeing two coaches for the last three weeks. They are both similar in style.. the plan was originally to go to both and figure out who we liked best. One of them was a pitching coach for Notre Dame and the other pitched for a small local college and now coaches that small college.

Eventually, we WILL narrow down to one of these coaches.

We have found another coach who's about a 2 hour drive away who were going to see in Febuary when she has availability. I don't want to name her but she holds pitching records at FSU and pitched for Italy in the Olympics so I'm hoping her resume will = great knowledge of pitching mechanics and teaching ability. I can't get in with her often (yet).. but as mentioned, maybe going once a month would be better than paying a coach who isn't teaching BI & IR.

Bill- We've watched many of your videos and i really like your style of teaching.
Ultimately, it's hard to change her on my own. I want to be teaching her up to date technique but it's hard to tell a girl who is one of the better 12u (thanks to some speed) pitchers in northern IN. that she's doing it wrong. She's happy with her progress which makes things tough.

Hopefully, when we go to see this pitching coach in Febuary, things will click and she'll be our new coach. I love the girls she's going to now, I'm just not sure that hello elbow will be enough to help her reach her dreams of pitching D1.

As far as motion pitches go, we're still having issues hitting spots and until were hitting consistently I can't worry too much about motion. A good fastball only last so long though and I understand that.

I realize that she's 12 and has a long way to go. I just think now is a make or break time for her to separate herself from the pack.

Thanks again everyone!
 
Last edited:

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,132
113
Dallas, Texas
She is having issues hitting sports because she doesn't have sufficient BI (brush interference). She need to stand up straight and let the arm brush her body.


Geez...there are a lot of good coaches in Chicagoland. Sparky, Ken and others are near Chicago.
 
Last edited:
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
Drop the guys you got and find a good PC. If you have to drive, drive. Try to find someone who will see her a couple of times a month. Your DD needs to pitch every week...but she doesn't need to see a PC every week. Seeing a PC every other week or maybe once a month would be fine.

I'd also see if you can find a coach who is willing to either give remote lessons (set up a video feed via Skype or something) or a coach who is willing to do video review of your lessons in between when you see them. With the former, it may not be exactly as good as an in-person lesson, but you're still getting real-time feedback. With the latter, you can see the coach less frequently but still send updates on your progress and receive feedback more often than once or twice a month.
 

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