4th practice for pitching

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Jan 4, 2019
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I posted in another thread about my daughter staring to pitch for the first time at 13. She and I both know she needs to add her legs in, right now she is doing drills for hand/ upper body. Do you all see anything there she should change?

https://youtu.be/hfqdyBTrLNk
 
Dec 5, 2012
4,143
63
Mid West
Not too shabby for a beginner. Here is a basic and short list of pointers

1. Timing is a bit off. Shoot for her arms to be straight forward at the 3:00 position as the right foot is coming up and over the toes. If there were a rubber here, this would be the detatchment moment.
2. She tends to allow the drag foot to work behind her (looks a bit like a bowlers leg) The effect of this is an un-stacked posture... and in turn will prevent a lot of the desired brush contact.
3. Emphasize a much more violent release. When the body reaches the T position (9:00) there should be a sense of acceleration. This will force her body to stabilize a bit more and will add some speed.
Side note*** She's obviously pitching to a coach/catcher in this clip. While learning, try to spend more time getting the mechanics perfect rather than hitting a catchers mitt. The body will naturally start to compensate and adjust to hit a spot, rather than staying the course of perfecting a desired sequence of motions. Instead, have her pitching into a net, tarp, or a carpet remnant hanging from the ceiling. Just make sure there's a balance.

Things to sustain that she's doing well.
1. Front leg resistance. Very good for a beginner
2. Internal rotation. Has ball upward at 9:00... good job
3. Gets a bit of brush (could be more with better posture)
 
Last edited:
Oct 4, 2018
4,611
113
Like coach james said in his 3rd bullet point, it just looks too relaxed. Just my opinion, but both the leg drive and the whip/release could have more "oomph" in them.
Watch the college girls and they are workin' it -- you can see in their form (and face, for what it's worth) that they are using muscles. Of course y'all may just be inside doing 75% stuff.

But really impressive for a beginner. Way better than all the beginning pitchers on my 10U team. :)
 
Last edited:
Jan 4, 2019
30
8
Thanks! Just what I was looking for. Her batting coach who was a D1 player suggested giving it a try, that’s who was working with her there. After taking it seriously, we have since got her a actual pitching coach. The first thing she mentioned was her bowlers leg. I blame my husband, he takes her bowling all the time �� she has had 1 actual pitching lesson since this video and she is doing drills more than actual pitching.
Here is a video of a drill.
https://youtu.be/orWu6w28D04


Are the indoor pitching grass ( don’t know what it’s called ) good to get ? She isn’t trying to use her legs inside for fear of slipping.
 
Oct 4, 2018
4,611
113
Thanks! Just what I was looking for. Her batting coach who was a D1 player suggested giving it a try, that’s who was working with her there. After taking it seriously, we have since got her a actual pitching coach. The first thing she mentioned was her bowlers leg. I blame my husband, he takes her bowling all the time �� she has had 1 actual pitching lesson since this video and she is doing drills more than actual pitching.
Here is a video of a drill.
https://youtu.be/orWu6w28D04


Are the indoor pitching grass ( don’t know what it’s called ) good to get ? She isn’t trying to use her legs inside for fear of slipping.


We use a 10 foot turf mat with built in rubber. Works pretty well for us. Do make sure you get a long one -- we have a short one too and the girls stride off of it, which isn't ideal. It also shifts a lot and then the power line is off center and rubber not perpendicular.
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
Thanks! Just what I was looking for. Her batting coach who was a D1 player suggested giving it a try, that’s who was working with her there. After taking it seriously, we have since got her a actual pitching coach. The first thing she mentioned was her bowlers leg. I blame my husband, he takes her bowling all the time �� she has had 1 actual pitching lesson since this video and she is doing drills more than actual pitching.
Here is a video of a drill.
https://youtu.be/orWu6w28D04


Are the indoor pitching grass ( don’t know what it’s called ) good to get ? She isn’t trying to use her legs inside for fear of slipping.

Dear Softballgirl06, I don't want to be an alarmist. But, I feel obligated to tell you that your daughter is on the path of a Hello Elbow type pitcher. If you're unfamiliar with that term, please check out other threads on this forum. It is far from the most optimal way to pitch. Now, in saying that, I have only seen one pitch from a drill. But, when comparing this clip to the other one, it's pretty clear she's been instructed to do things differently. And this drill is promoting a "hello elbow" pitching mechanic. If this becomes habit forming, she will have to unlearn this as she progresses. (Please check out any thread with "internal rotation" in the headline, there are some comparisons between Hello Elbow and Internal Rotation there for you to see).

Please know, I'm saying this with the kindest of hearts. I know emails, texts and even softball threads can sometimes come off with a "tone" that is not intentional. So PLEASE don't think I'm trying to insult you, your daughter or anyone!! But, I would never have my pitchers doing what your daughter seems to be instructed of doing. In fact, if you know anything about me, you'd know I have been an advocate against this Hello Elbow thing for many many years, long before this board was created. And don't get me wrong, I'm not the inventor of how to pitch. There were people before me that would've told you the Hello Elbow method is simply not the way our bodies are designed to work! So, please never think I am claiming ownership or a patent on how to throw a softball!

But, I think there are some serious questions you need to have with your pitching coach. Please read some of the Internal rotation threads, check out some online clips (I even have a few that were put on YouTube by various people) and make up your own mind about what's right/wrong. I think you'll see a big difference in what your coach says vs. what many people on here will tell you.

Good luck!

Bill Hillhouse
 
Jan 4, 2019
30
8
I have been reading about the IR vs the Hello Elbow on this group. I saw in the first video she has some
natural IR on her own. I thought this drill was more about her hips being open, but not sure. I know when she is pitching with the coach, she still looks like the original post and she has not tried to change that. I’ll talk to her about what style she teaches. Is hello elbow really called that ?
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,132
113
Dallas, Texas
Bill is 100% correct. She needs to work on IR--which means "internal rotation".

Internal rotation, basically, means that the ball is on top her hand when her left arm is extended toward 2B, and that her left hand turns over and is palm down after release.

This video shows two drills. The first drill is with the ball at 12 (straight up) and the ball at 9 (arm toward 2B).

At 12, the palm is facing the catcher and the hand pulls the ball around the circle. At 9 o'clock, the palm is up and the hand under the ball.

After release, the palm is down. Because the palm is "up" at 9 and then rotates to palm down after release, This is called internal rotation, which we refer to on DFP as IR.

My suggestion is to start your Dd doing the drill at 9, and then progress to 12, and then try the whole motion.

Some ways that help a kid remember to have "palm down after release" is to refer to it as "zombie arm" or "kiss the hand of the princess".

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/B6PW4DCqbW8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Dec 5, 2012
4,143
63
Mid West
Thanks! Just what I was looking for. Her batting coach who was a D1 player suggested giving it a try, that’s who was working with her there. After taking it seriously, we have since got her a actual pitching coach. The first thing she mentioned was her bowlers leg. I blame my husband, he takes her bowling all the time �� she has had 1 actual pitching lesson since this video and she is doing drills more than actual pitching.
Here is a video of a drill.
https://youtu.be/orWu6w28D04


Are the indoor pitching grass ( don’t know what it’s called ) good to get ? She isn’t trying to use her legs inside for fear of slipping.

This new drill... is going to create some really bad habits, and will severely limit her ability to throw any movement pitches down the road.
I actually liked her better in the first clip.
I'm afraid Bill is correct here in that your new PC is coaching the IR, openness, and resistance out of her...
Study the best pitchers in the world. Look at their patterns, and then compare those patterns to this PC's current students... This is how you'll find the right fit.

Yes, you 100% need to get a mat.... something similar to this https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai...EwiF9s2mlPjfAhVCvlkKHT1oAMo4FBDYKQjOAg&adurl=
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
I have been reading about the IR vs the Hello Elbow on this group. I saw in the first video she has some
natural IR on her own. I thought this drill was more about her hips being open, but not sure. I know when she is pitching with the coach, she still looks like the original post and she has not tried to change that. I’ll talk to her about what style she teaches. Is hello elbow really called that ?

Hi again. It's called "hello elbow" on this board, it's a phrase coined by pitching great Jenny Finch, and something she teaches but doesn't actually do when she pitches A lot of "old school" coaches teach it, not realizing what they are actually teaching. So if you asked your coach if he/she is a "hello elbow" coach they may look at you crosseyed. But, it's VERY clear in that 2nd video that she's being taught to do it. And, I think we need to double check what you said about her hips being "open" in that drill. They are 100% closed, not open!!! Open would indicate that she's sideways, closed is when they are square to the catcher. Your coach may reverse those phrases (although I'm not sure why they would) but OUR definition on this board is that she's closed hips. Don't get me wrong, we do need to close the hips. And there can be an argument about WHEN we close the hips. But she is clearly closing her hips as she's releasing the ball in that video. I'm a big advocate of the hand going through before the hips close. Again, as Coach James has said, watch the best in the world (men and women) and you'll see they are more "open" as the ball comes through the release point.

I wish you all the best
Bill
 

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