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Thread: Some timing things Lizzy is working on

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    Softball Junkie Boomers2012's Avatar
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    Default Some timing things Lizzy is working on

    I thought I would share some of the things Liz is beginning to enhance. Lizzy has always struggled with timing. Mainly front side timing. Meaning, where the landing foot is in relationship to the ball arm. I understand that optimal front side timing is when the landing heel touches down when the ball is at 10:30-11:00. A 1000 page novel could be written about timing but in a nutshell, you want to exhaust the push by 3:00 (ball arm), get your landing foot going downward as the ball arm is going upward (overlap) and get the landing heel down by 10:30-11:00. Maybe the gurus can chime in and explain it a little better than i can. How do you achieve all this?? Well, I think you experiment until you find something that works best for your DD lol. Below are a couple vids of last nights session. Maybe this will start some dialogue on timing and how to achieve it most efficiently.


    Im not sure how to post anything but a link from You Tube. Any help would be appreciated on how to post the vid and not just a link.


    https://youtu.be/hKHR9OpbZFs

    https://youtu.be/3tDRMOTlnks
    Last edited by Boomers2012; 12-06-2018 at 11:33 AM.

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball coach james's Avatar
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    She looks as flawless as any model we study... very good.
    Looking forward to where she will play in college!!!
    "The only difference between average and exceptional, is the attention to detail applied to the task... Don't practice mistakes." James Clark

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    Boomers, similar issue here with Kat regarding the timing (per Java). Your DD looks good and is appearing to get the arm and landing foot out front, in-sync and close to parallel from what I saw in the slo-mo. Both our DD's seem to be getting slightly ahead of the firmed up landing with the arm motion (closer to 9 - 10) and reducing the whip. We are just about to begin pitching workouts again (last time she threw at all was in OKC about 3 weeks ago - trying for a full month's rest from the motion) and the timing issue is one of our biggest focuses right now...explode early with perfect timing and then allow the transfer of all that energy to happen on the downside against a strong frontside into release. Sounds easy right? As you say, it'll be a ton of reps!

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    6-4-3 = 2 javasource's Avatar
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    Leg/circle timing can be boiled down to enhancing front side resistance. IOW, the rate at which one can change direction. For this reason, there is no magic time (despite Ken's obsession with 10:55 pst ).

    If we want to increase our speed, we need a way to accelerate the ball forward. FSR accomplishes this WITHOUT the need of trying to juice the ball with our arm, or with unnecessary/misdirected tension in the body. We need one moment where we allow for TRANSFER of energy... and 99.9% of young athletes are instead using release as an opportunity to CREATE.

    To transfer EFFICIENTLY... our joints (stride ankle, stride knee, stride hip, spine crossover, throwing shoulder) need to be stacked against the force into the ground. In addition, the ball needs to be slightly beyond this diagonal line of stacked joints.

    From there... we need to then have the ability to stabilize and resist. If the posture is good, the alignment of the joints do the Lion's share of the work (compressive) in stability... meaning that we are less likely to activate muscles (create energy) at a time of transfer.

    Stability occurs from the ground up... ankle, knee, hip, spine, shoulder)... and as each area stabilizes, it comes to an inactive appearance... as the energy is sucked out of the preceding joint and passed into the next.

    Total body stability is most efficient when it occurs JUST before brush contact. If this is the case, the stability allows for well-timed internal rotation... or the series of tightening rotations that occurs when we release the ball efficiently. Without stability, the angular corner that I/R creates is loosened... and less efficient.

    So... as Ben suggests, it's been observed that if the athletes stride foot starts to descend back towards the ground (it first goes up and outward) no later than when the athlete reaches 3:00... this checkpoint allows the athlete plenty of time to make all of the above to happen. Otherwise, they run out of time, and lose energy transfer (speed) into the ball.

    I added all these points because I know plenty of young ladies with decent frontside timing, but poor FSR. It's a chain of sequences... not just one. And Lizzy could have better FSR, too

    Lastly, the Rate of Force Development when pushing from the rubber is a giant failure in young athletes these days. As noted in the DM thread, the rate at which the drive knee extends is most often MUCH SLOWER than the rate at which the stride leg comes out... making for very INEFFICIENT use of the lower half. Watch a single-leg bound... and note that the pushing knee straightens AS the striding knee flexes. This is Efficient... and what allows for one to disconnect from the rubber at 3, too. Angela Tinscher was one of the best I've watched with lower body organization, firing rate, and rate of FSR. Lizzy has improved here the most, Ben.

    On the road right now, I'll toss some gifs up when I get home.

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    Looking great Boomers! Looking forward to Java's visual explanation of FSR an FST.

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    Quote Originally Posted by javasource View Post
    Leg/circle timing can be boiled down to enhancing front side resistance. IOW, the rate at which one can change direction. For this reason, there is no magic time (despite Ken's obsession with 10:55 pst ).

    If we want to increase our speed, we need a way to accelerate the ball forward. FSR accomplishes this WITHOUT the need of trying to juice the ball with our arm, or with unnecessary/misdirected tension in the body. We need one moment where we allow for TRANSFER of energy... and 99.9% of young athletes are instead using release as an opportunity to CREATE.

    To transfer EFFICIENTLY... our joints (stride ankle, stride knee, stride hip, spine crossover, throwing shoulder) need to be stacked against the force into the ground. In addition, the ball needs to be slightly beyond this diagonal line of stacked joints.

    From there... we need to then have the ability to stabilize and resist. If the posture is good, the alignment of the joints do the Lion's share of the work (compressive) in stability... meaning that we are less likely to activate muscles (create energy) at a time of transfer.

    Stability occurs from the ground up... ankle, knee, hip, spine, shoulder)... and as each area stabilizes, it comes to an inactive appearance... as the energy is sucked out of the preceding joint and passed into the next.

    Total body stability is most efficient when it occurs JUST before brush contact. If this is the case, the stability allows for well-timed internal rotation... or the series of tightening rotations that occurs when we release the ball efficiently. Without stability, the angular corner that I/R creates is loosened... and less efficient.

    So... as Ben suggests, it's been observed that if the athletes stride foot starts to descend back towards the ground (it first goes up and outward) no later than when the athlete reaches 3:00... this checkpoint allows the athlete plenty of time to make all of the above to happen. Otherwise, they run out of time, and lose energy transfer (speed) into the ball.

    I added all these points because I know plenty of young ladies with decent frontside timing, but poor FSR. It's a chain of sequences... not just one. And Lizzy could have better FSR, too

    Lastly, the Rate of Force Development when pushing from the rubber is a giant failure in young athletes these days. As noted in the DM thread, the rate at which the drive knee extends is most often MUCH SLOWER than the rate at which the stride leg comes out... making for very INEFFICIENT use of the lower half. Watch a single-leg bound... and note that the pushing knee straightens AS the striding knee flexes. This is Efficient... and what allows for one to disconnect from the rubber at 3, too. Angela Tinscher was one of the best I've watched with lower body organization, firing rate, and rate of FSR. Lizzy has improved here the most, Ben.

    On the road right now, I'll toss some gifs up when I get home.
    Maybe Iím a geek but I love reading your analysis.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Good day at DFP!

    (BTW, it's 9:55 DFP Standard Time: https://www.discussfastpitch.com/sof...t-lands-3.html )
    Last edited by Ken B; 12-07-2018 at 01:24 AM.
    Some of my favorite pitching sites, threads and videos: https://www.discussfastpitch.com/sof...tml#post449172 and https://fastpitchfoundations.com/

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    Can someone gif those clips? Great info from the coffee man!
    Do not argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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    I am loving the amount of growth from our DFP pitchers. Really does show that people around here knows their stuff.


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    Lizzy has really been trying to get into the front lean. Trying to keep her head inline with her back side and not hinging at the waste. I think that is something that is helping with the front side timing. Aside from being a little tight in the arm during whip, this is probably one of her best timing pitches from last nights work. She told me she thinks to herself to only begin the drive when she feels like she is about to fall on her face lol. Seems to be a good thought for her. The other thing Liz is working on is keeping the front foot lower to the ground by not "reaching" out with her toes (not sure if that makes sense). It is taking some time and tons of reps but I think she is slowly getting the hang of getting that "rushed" timing.

    One of the bad habits I mentioned that have crept in to Lizzys mechanics in an earlier post is she was getting too open. In some pitches, her belly button was actually pointing beyond the third basemen. She has been fixing that as well thanks to Java. That one seems to be an easy fix. The prompt is "push as closed as possible". The hips will naturally open by themselves without any extra effort to getting open. This has seemed to work.

    Below are some vids of timing work from last night. Like I said, the ball arm was a little tight but in my opinion, that is to be expected when working on something this difficult!

    https://youtu.be/YQpCRjQXSsM
    https://youtu.be/7RFYqc-KChY

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