how should changeup cross the plate

bmakj said:

DD is catcher, and is getting frustrated. Coach is telling the pitchers he wants there changeup hitting the plate, giving her real issues blocking.

is this the desired location for a changeup, hitting the plate? drop ball I would say yes, and she expects it, but changeup I always though should follow as close to fastball trajectory/path as possible, just slower speed.

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If the initial trajectory of a change-up is the same as one's fastball, then the pitch will come in lower .... that's simply physics ..... gravity will have more time to do its thing.

Get good at blocking pitches. It's a good skill to develop.

The situation should dictation where the change up is located. Bases empty and ahead in the count, dropping it on the plate is not a bad idea, but to be successful at a high level a pitcher needs to be able to throw off speed pitches for strikes when necessary. I also would not recommend throwing on the plate with runners on base because the chance of runners advancing goes up dramatically.

Ideal CU location in the dirt? Sounds like the coach is scared to trust the pitch and that will show in his pitch calling.

The best location is a CU the catcher can reach forward and catch. The idea you never throw it for a called strike is very flawed and part of the anywhere/anytime mentality.


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MNDad said:

I don’t know anyone who thinks any ball that gets passed the catcher is a PB. I know 80-90% of the time if a ball gets away it’s on the pitcher and I’d agree catchers get blamed more than they should. I do think whether it’s called a PB or WP “ordinary effort” includes blocking though.

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I guess we don’t know any of the same people, then. I know a pitcher’s mom who used to keep score for the team, and there wasn’t a single wild pitch thrown all season. There were dozens of passed balls, though. Even pitches that Aubrey Munro couldn’t have stopped we’re scored as passed balls. I also knew a catcher’s mom who would NEVER charge her DD with a PB, even if it was a called strike and hit her right in the mitt. Now, these moms are extreme examples, but brother they are out there.

We will philosophically disagree about whether or not blocking is ordinary effort, and I think therein lies the difference in how people score games with regard to WP vs PB. Where I’m coming from is based on the difference between basics and fundamentals. I believe that basics are easy and fundamentals are hard. I believe that ordinary effort is easy and extraordinary effort is hard. Basics are the single most rudimentary part of the game, while fundamentals are more difficult but still must be mastered in order to have success in the game. Keeping the focus on catchers, basics include squatting without falling over, a proper distance behind the plate so that the bat won’t hit the catchers mitt and draw a CI call, and catching with one hand. Fundamentals include framing, blocking, situational awareness, pitch calling, and making strong accurate throws to pick off base runners. Fundamentals are hard and do not fall under the category of ordinary effort. Some people might even assess that any pitch that causes a catcher to not be in a squat position would immediately be deemed as extraordinary effort. I know that not everyone would agree with my assessment, and every one of the things I listed should be mastered by the time a catcher gets as old as my DD, but that doesn’t make them easy.


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I am going to go against the grain I guess. I see no problem with calling a changeup that hits the plate. You just need to call that pitch in the right situation. I would not call a changeup to hit the plate for a third strike or with runners on the base. I see no problem with calling a changeup to hit the plate with a 0-1 count or to an aggresive batter when the pitch count is in your favor.

I still remember in 10u how many girls swing at changeups that bounce a foot or two infront of the plate.

As a long time catcher who's worked with a mountain of pitchers I want no pitches in the dirt ever. Find another coach who knows what they're doing

625ender said:

As a long time catcher who's worked with a mountain of pitchers I want no pitches in the dirt ever. Find another coach who knows what they're doing

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Agreed. Change this pitch to "drop-ball" or "curve-ball" and it's just silly to say that any pitch that consistently hits the plate would be effective (for reasons others have mentioned).

As others pointed out it this all depends on age and speed but it defiantly shouldn't be a goal as a pitcher.

The drop on plate thing seems to be a function of age (12U)....I'd love to be a baserunner against your coach. Read the change up and guaranteed steal if it's always hitting the dirt, catcher not only needs to pick that clean but come up throwing. Or maybe he doesn't throw changes with runners on base lol?

As or WP/PB discussion, my DD was a catcher and EVERY pitch not blocked was on her (first from the coaches, and eventually in her own mind). That accountability made her the excellent catcher she was. I'm not sure she or anyone ever checked her PB stats, but I know if she let one by it was like striking out with the bases loaded to her....

I am going to start to try to keep track of PB/WP just on my own reckoning, just to try and track improvement, and also which Ps throw more WP, and as best I can reckon what pitch it was (CU, drop, FB). got scoring question related to this, if there are no runners on, technically there can be neither PB or WP, correct (I will still track though )?

I try to be as objective as possible (DD and DW would say I am overly critical of both DDs, probably right). She does need to block better, but at same time, when the coach is asking the pitchers to throw 50%+ of the pitches to hit he plate or dirt, she gets a little exasperated.

bmakj said:

thanks for all the feedback, for now will tell DD to expect CUs to hit the plate, as that is what they are all doing. issue is big difference between hitting plate and dirt, off plate they are generally bouncing over her (since it is going down, she is going down to block).

I know one pitchers parent is not happy with this, does not want their DD pitching CU with intent to hit the plate.

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Didn't pick up on the issue being the ball hitting the plate vs the dirt...that's tough for the catcher...could go anywhere. Maybe you can set the target up just off the outside edge of the plate so that balls in the dirt are mostly in the dirt as opposed to hitting the plate. I see nothing wrong with a CU hitting the dirt...a low changeup is very effective. College girls are throwing changeups at 50mph...they don't hit the dirt...at 12U a 32 mph changeup is hitting the dirt.