how should changeup cross the plate

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

May 6, 2015
2,397
113
thanks for all the feedback, for now will tell DD to expect CUs to hit the plate, as that is what they are all doing. issue is big difference between hitting plate and dirt, off plate they are generally bouncing over her (since it is going down, she is going down to block).

I know one pitchers parent is not happy with this, does not want their DD pitching CU with intent to hit the plate.
 
Oct 4, 2018
4,611
113
How old is the pitcher? With our 8 and 9 year old pitchers, a change up doesn't have much on it and often dies at the plate.
 
Mar 1, 2016
195
18
Don’t know if this will help you or not, but here goes. My DD, a catcher, has caught pitchers who bounced CU off the plate and pitchers who threw their CU at the knees - in the same game. It was much easier for her to catch them at the knees, but she was prepared for blocking the stupid ones that bounced in. The difference in my DD’s case and your DD’s case is that we didn’t have a coach instructing the pitchers to do it, it was just the pitchers’ private instructors teaching them to do it. When my DD figured out which pitcher was going to do what, it was much easier for her to catch them properly.

Side note, everyone who thinks that any ball that gets by a catcher is a passed ball is wrong. If a pitch hits the dirt or the plate in front of the catcher, and she fails to block it, it’s a wild pitch. I’ve seen a lot of coaches teaching their pitcher DD to throw it in the dirt because “if it gets by the catcher, it’s a passed ball and doesn’t hurt your stats.” Those very same coaches completely changed their tunes when they were shown the difference between a wild pitch and a passed ball as defined in NCAA scoring rules 14.28 and 14.29. That’s the only rule set that really explains the difference between the two, and 99% of parents and coaches have never read it. I know that a couple of umpires on here would tell me that NCAA rules are different than other rules, but not when it comes to this. The point is that maybe your DD’s coach thinks this way and needs to be shown the two scoring rules. Whether he changes after that or not, make sure your DD is ready to block everything, even a riseball. Yes, some pitchers really are that bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Jun 29, 2013
589
18
Someone here clued me in on this last year, and I'm forever grateful. There are exceptions (can't remember which rule) but as a general rule, and as the dad of a pitcher whose change does bounce in there a lot, I still almost always score this a WP.
Corlay, no doubt- you can get a ton of strikeouts on balls in the dirt.

Side note, everyone who thinks that any ball that gets by a catcher is a passed ball is wrong. If a pitch hits the dirt or the plate in front of the catcher, and she fails to block it, it’s a wild pitch. I’ve seen a lot of coaches teaching their pitcher DD to throw it in the dirt because “if it gets by the catcher, it’s a passed ball and doesn’t hurt your stats.” Those very same coaches completely changed their tunes when they were shown the difference between a wild pitch and a passed ball as defined in NCAA scoring rules 14.28 and 14.29. That’s the only rule set that really explains the difference between the two, and 99% of parents and coaches have never read it. I know that a couple of umpires on here would tell me that NCAA rules are different than other rules, but not when it comes to this. The point is that maybe your DD’s coach thinks this way and needs to be shown the two scoring rules. Whether he changes after that or not, make sure your DD is ready to block everything, even a riseball. Yes, some pitchers really are that bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
 
Nov 18, 2013
2,255
113
Don’t know if this will help you or not, but here goes. My DD, a catcher, has caught pitchers who bounced CU off the plate and pitchers who threw their CU at the knees - in the same game. It was much easier for her to catch them at the knees, but she was prepared for blocking the stupid ones that bounced in. The difference in my DD’s case and your DD’s case is that we didn’t have a coach instructing the pitchers to do it, it was just the pitchers’ private instructors teaching them to do it. When my DD figured out which pitcher was going to do what, it was much easier for her to catch them properly.

Side note, everyone who thinks that any ball that gets by a catcher is a passed ball is wrong. If a pitch hits the dirt or the plate in front of the catcher, and she fails to block it, it’s a wild pitch. I’ve seen a lot of coaches teaching their pitcher DD to throw it in the dirt because “if it gets by the catcher, it’s a passed ball and doesn’t hurt your stats.” Those very same coaches completely changed their tunes when they were shown the difference between a wild pitch and a passed ball as defined in NCAA scoring rules 14.28 and 14.29. That’s the only rule set that really explains the difference between the two, and 99% of parents and coaches have never read it. I know that a couple of umpires on here would tell me that NCAA rules are different than other rules, but not when it comes to this. The point is that maybe your DD’s coach thinks this way and needs to be shown the two scoring rules. Whether he changes after that or not, make sure your DD is ready to block everything, even a riseball. Yes, some pitchers really are that bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's incorrect. There are several different definitions of "wild pitch" depending on sanctioning body, NFHS and college. I posted them all a while back. I'll see if I can find them.

NCAA is only place any pitch in the dirt is wild. I agree about 99% of the parents never reading the rules :)

NFHS (& PGF)
SECTION 6 PITCHER’S RECORD
ART. 1 . . . A wild pitch (F.P.) shall be charged to the pitcher when a ball legally delivered to the
batter is so high, or so low (including any pitch which touches the ground in front of home base),
or so far away from home base that the catcher does not stop or control it with ordinary effort and
the batter-runner advances to first base or any runner advances a base.

NCAA
SECTION 28—WILD PITCH
A wild pitch is charged to a pitcher when the pitch is
so high, wide or low that the catcher cannot handle the
ball with ordinary effort and at least one runner advances.
Any pitch in the dirt is wild.

USSSA
WILD PITCH. A wild pitch is a pitch that cannot be handled by the catcher with
ordinary effort.

ASA
WILD PITCH: A legally delivered pitch that the catcher cannot catch or stop and control
with ordinary effort.
 
Last edited:
Mar 1, 2016
195
18
That's incorrect. There are several different definitions of "wild pitch" depending on sanctioning body, NFHS and college.

You have basically confirmed what I stated. NFHS gives a little more leniency to the pitcher and says that ball has to hit the dirt in front of the plate to be wild. NCAA is the ONLY rule set that clearly states “any pitch in the dirt is deemed wild”. If anyone can find any language in any rule set that says any pitch in the dirt that gets by the catcher is a passed ball, I’d like to see it. It would contradict every rule set I’ve ever read. Ask any catcher and she will tell you that blocking is not ordinary effort. Most coaches would recognize it as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Nov 18, 2013
2,255
113
You have basically confirmed what I stated. NFHS gives a little more leniency to the pitcher and says that ball has to hit the dirt in front of the plate to be wild. NCAA is the ONLY rule set that clearly states “any pitch in the dirt is deemed wild”. If anyone can find any language in any rule set that says any pitch in the dirt that gets by the catcher is a passed ball, I’d like to see it. It would contradict every rule set I’ve ever read. Ask any catcher and she will tell you that blocking is not ordinary effort. Most coaches would recognize it as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t know anyone who thinks any ball that gets passed the catcher is a PB. I know 80-90% of the time if a ball gets away it’s on the pitcher and I’d agree catchers get blamed more than they should. I do think whether it’s called a PB or WP “ordinary effort” includes blocking though.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
42,831
Messages
679,489
Members
21,445
Latest member
Bmac81802
Top