Pitch Calling - Important?

Having the game called by someone else worked for Nuke Laloosh!!! If wins are the main objective, I understand a coaches desire to call the game. But I believe for the long term growth of both the pitcher and catcher, letting them call the game is the better approach.

cnardone said:

Having the game called by someone else worked for Nuke Laloosh!!! If wins are the main objective, I understand a coaches desire to call the game. But I believe for the long term growth of both the pitcher and catcher, letting them call the game is the better approach.

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LOL
--- Great movie... A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains."

GunnerShotgun said:

Perhaps this is because our system is player friendly and their input is taken into account so it isn't necessary. While I can't speak to other coaches and their systems this is not something I observe from other teams either.

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Gunner - I think it's evident by many of the responses already posted that other players and coaches have experienced something different than you've seen. I'm trying to understand where the difference comes in, I've said that I think it should be a team effort incorporating input from everyone (primarily the coach, pitcher and the catcher) and that it should be something that flows and adjusts as the game goes on. Your statement quoted above seems to say the same thing at first but then you also say it isn't necessary? Not sure how that works?

In regards to the pace of pitch calling you must admit that it can vary widely and some coaches just don't call the next pitch as quickly as others.

Also, this question did not stem from a one game loss where a pitcher gave up a hit. Why do you have to assume that? Personally, we've had a pretty high level of success with both approaches. My original question stems from watching a lot of different styles, at all different levels and age groups. When someone puts in as much time as it takes to develop a pitcher (and a catcher for that matter) over the years this is a topic that is often discussed and studied intensely. Would you call the same game and pitch sequence for your drop ball pitcher as you would for your riseballer, etc.. etc.? Again, trying to understand the whole process better and it just seems like some of the "control" that is assumed by coaches is not the best for developing players softball IQ. I do understand that at a higher level where a job/career may depend on your win/loss record it becomes a different story (and players need to be able to adapt to that scenario).

GunnerShotgun said:

Sometimes you see that chart floating around this site and others about how to "attack a batter" based on their swing or where they stand in the box, etc. This is nonsense. This assumes that your pitcher has 5 pitches that they can throw to various locations and various speeds. Ask a pitchers parent and of course they have all 5 pitches. As a coach you know this isn't true so why attack a batter with the pitchers third best pitch based on your "eye test"? It's silly.

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At the risk of sounding silly, anyone have this chart handy ?

My pitch calling days are behind me, but I'd still like to see it just to spark a conversation with DD. I did a quick search here but came up empty.

Incidentally, I took DD to a pitch-calling presentation that Rachel Lawson gave last year and she credited this approach to her success as a pitching coach and head coach despite never having been a pitcher herself. Most of what she reviewed was what a batter's stance reveals about their approach and how to exploit it.

TIA to anyone who is able to share the aforementioned chart.

FWIW coaches will be calling the pitches in college. Where I think catchers calling games in HS and travel benefits them the most is they have a good idea what the coaches are doing and why. This gives them the ability to know what kind of feedback to give the coaches between innings about what's working, what's not, where the ump is calling things etc.

Tatonka said:

Gunner - I think it's evident by many of the responses already posted that other players and coaches have experienced something different than you've seen

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You think on most teams the pitcher or the catcher is exclusively calling the game? That is not my experience and I encourage you to walk around games the next time you go to a tournament and see for yourself.

GunnerShotgun said:

You think on most teams the pitcher or the catcher is exclusively calling the game? That is not my experience and I encourage you to walk around games the next time you go to a tournament and see for yourself.

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I think "exclusively" is the key word in that post. When my #1 catcher is in the game, she is calling pitches. She works well with our pitchers and will get feedback from them concerning various things. I will also speak with her (and the pitcher) quite often during the game. There are times that I may say "let's bust #7 on the hands next time up" or "let's start #10 with a change up. she seems anxious" or "looks like blue is giving you the outside. Let's see how far we can take it". So, yes, I am providing some input and guidance. The pitcher is also providing input. But the catcher is calling the game. But not exclusively. And there are times that the pitcher will shake her off. That's all part of teamwork.

Tatonka said:

it just seems like some of the "control" that is assumed by coaches is not the best for developing players softball IQ.

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I hear this a lot and it sounds good but do you have any proof that this is so? What I have found is that people that stake out this position are usually the pitcher or catcher parents.

The reality on most teams (good) teams is this.

1. Coach develops pitching card based on that pitchers available pitches;
2. That pitchers favorite pitches are weighted on the pitching card accordingly;
3. After pitcher warms up the coach goes to the catcher and asks what pitches are working (and what's not);
4. Coaches goes to pitcher and asks what pitches are working and what is not (interesting how many times the answers differ from pitcher and catcher )
5. Scouting report of team is discussed (if available) with pitcher and catcher. Spray charts from Game Changer if available. Slappers and runners are identified.
6. Coach calls pitches primarily favoring that pitchers go to pitch;
7. After first inning discussion with pitcher and catcher on what worked and what didn't. Also discuss the umpires strike zone;
8. Rinse and repeat Step 7 the rest of the game.


What we don't do is have the catcher or pitcher calling the game exclusively based on their observations independent of all other information, so they "can improve their softball IQ". That's a disservice to the team...

Rick M said:

At the risk of sounding silly, anyone have this chart handy ?
.

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This isn't the exact chart but the information is the same.

https://sites.google.com/site/keysoftballposts/pitching-call-chart

FP26 said:

I think "exclusively" is the key word in that post. When my #1 catcher is in the game, she is calling pitches. She works well with our pitchers and will get feedback from them concerning various things. I will also speak with her (and the pitcher) quite often during the game. There are times that I may say "let's bust #7 on the hands next time up" or "let's start #10 with a change up. she seems anxious" or "looks like blue is giving you the outside. Let's see how far we can take it". So, yes, I am providing some input and guidance. The pitcher is also providing input. But the catcher is calling the game. But not exclusively. And there are times that the pitcher will shake her off. That's all part of teamwork.

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Exactly. I was about to post something very similar. Now sure why we've gotten off track with this "exclusive" language.